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 Post subject: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:24 am 
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Location: Morganville NJ
While i'm waiting for my floor i do have a question about starters and finishing rows. Are there any professional tricks in order to avoid drilling/top nailing boards? i have 5/8 Owens unfinished engineered PlankFloor, planning to staple down to sub-floor (two layers of ply 3/4 and 1/2). Is it common to start and finish by gluing down (BASF CX-1000) and staple the rest on the middle?


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 Post subject: Re: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:01 pm 
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Use tubes of PLPremium and don't staple the top.

Read Ken's other site: http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwoodinstaller/

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 Post subject: Re: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:11 pm 
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You would want to use a Urethane adhesive available in the PL cartridges, squirt it down in a zig zag pattern. I also topnail, using 18 gauge finish nails, where the base will cover.

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Howard Chorpash
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 Post subject: Re: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:16 am 
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I don't like to interupt the vapour barrier (we use V-LOK) any more than necessary, so our process is to lay out the v-lok wall to wall with proper overlap, then cut 1/2 inch wide slots along the parallel walls about every foot or so; out from the wall about the width of two - three boards. This is where we put the glue. The hope is that the glue spreads enough to maintain a uniform vapour barrier. Also, we try to only nail the last board near the wall. Some of the guys also use their brad gun to put a couple pins through the end tongue of the boards; however, I am not too fond of this practice, since there could be a tendency to split the boards if there is any excess movement caused by humidity fluctuations.

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 Post subject: Re: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:49 am 
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dennis wrote:
I don't like to interupt the vapour barrier (we use V-LOK) any more than necessary,


Haven't used V-Lok. When you pierce through with staples, or in your case cleats ( 3/4"), it must still maintains it's vapor barrier at the fastener locations ?

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 Post subject: Re: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:08 am 
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Ya, a most amazing product. The theory is that the heat of the cleat (or staple) passing through the V-lok melts it and seals around it. I am a bit sceptical, but sure seems to have eliminated 99 percent of those pesky "my floor is cupped" calls from clients who have perchased new houses. The speed which they are being built up here does not allow for basement humidity levels to stabilize before we have to install the floor. Seems like there's corn growing in the field in June, and people moving into new houses in same location 6-8 weeks later, sheesh.
V-lok is the recommended product for under Bruce's Natural Reflections (now called Natural Choice). If ya don't use it for that, and have a warrantee call, Armstrong will just laff atcha.
I sourced out the manufacturer, (was tough since there was never an identifier on the rolls) and struck up a deal for large direct purchases.
We use it under ALL main floor installations, rooms over garages, etc. But not second floors where there is a finished ceiling below. For that we just use the useless wax paper that is so widely used up here.
A couple of other large flooring contractors, and many of our smaller contractors who purchase their material from us have listened to my words of "wisdom" and switched to using it too. They buy it from me so all is good, and I sell it at a tidy profit but still way below the branded version that comes from Armstrong.

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 Post subject: Re: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:08 pm 
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Location: Morganville NJ
Thank you gentlemen, helps a lot.
What about using leftover flooring glue BASF CX-1000 (similar to Bostik's Best) instead of PLPremium? I'll have about 2 gallons left.
And another question what glue is recommended to use for stair treads? planning to glue new solid treads over old builder's carpet covered pine treads. Can i use same flooring BASF glue or other like PLPremium is better choice? (have no problem by throwing out BASF left over, looking for a quality first and then if it's possible saving buck or two but quality first).
Greatly appreciate your response.


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 Post subject: Re: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:54 pm 
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I understand that Chemrex is top quality adhesive, but not familiar with it. You can use the CX-1000 if it's a urethane adhesive, (I couldnt pull up the pdf ).

You can also use it on the tred installation , again, if it's urethane. I full spread the existing treds using Bostik's Best or EFA, (1/8" x 1/4" x 1/4" square notch trowell).

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 Post subject: Re: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 9:28 pm 
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According to our local hardwood floor distributor CX-1000 is not urethane based and this is a fourth generation of flooring adhesive (Bostic's Best if second generation). He said who ever tried CX never goes back to Bostic's cause it's much better binds, easier to cleanup, etc and it's a bit cheaper then bostic's.
Here is pdf for it http://construction.basf.us/files/products/CX1_tdg.pdf
So can i use it for treads (and starters and finishing rows) even if it's not urethane based? or there is something spcific about urethane based adhesive?


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 Post subject: Re: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:36 pm 
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Well, What does your distributor say about using it for treds? Acording to the pdf...it says o.k. on solids. Like i said..I'm familiar with Bostik. Also familiar with Mapei and a little Taylor.
The main reason guys say urethane, is to stay away from acrylic, (any percentage of water).
Bostik's Best IS a pain in the butt to clean. Depending on the situation I will use Bostik EFA or Mapei Ultrabond 990, for that reason, and I feel they bond ALMOST as good as Best, also less expensive. IMO , and I dont even have to try CX to feel the statement they made about CX has a much better bond than Best is rediculous. But hey, they're obviously pushing this CX, I'm sure it's good glue.

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 Post subject: Re: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:36 am 
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I've used the cx-1000 a few times up against BB on the same jobs...different rooms. Works and grabs great. I'd exclusively use it all the time if the distributor didn't go belly up. I believe it is a newer silicone based adhesive. Super easy clean up. Love it!

And yes you should be able to use it instead of the tubes if you have left overs, didn't know that at first.

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 Post subject: Re: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:12 pm 
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Who makes the V-lok? I can't seem to find anything on it except a poly film by Bruce.


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 Post subject: Re: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:50 pm 
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jeff burstein wrote:
Who makes the V-lok? I can't seem to find anything on it except a poly film by Bruce.


It sounds like Armstrong carries it, but doesn't manufacturer it. Under what name I dont know. I find the same stuff under v-lok...plastic.
O.K. Dennis, Did you dream this stuff up ? :P

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 Post subject: Re: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:51 am 
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Ok, I dont know if I want to give away my secrets or not, but oh heck, im gonna retire soon anyway.
V-lok is made for Armstrong specifically for their Natural Choice product (formerly known as Natural Reflections). I believe there was an arrangement that the source would not be identified on the individual packaging.
We used to order it through Goodfellow Lumber, the Canadian distributor of of all Bruce products. We would order by pallet and one time the shipper forgot to remove the origin tag off the pallet.....Voila!!.
I contacted the manufacturer, negotiated a sweetheart deal for the same product without the Armstrong labelling and now sell the stuff all over the place at far less than what I used to pay for it. We order 10 pallets at a time so that kinda helps the price.
Anyway, I believe in an open playing field, so the name of the manufacturer is: International Plastics, located in Greenville, SC. My contact there is Kim, who sounds amazing attractive on the phone.

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 Post subject: Re: How to affix the starters and finishing rows
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:31 am 
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isn't that just a poly film?


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