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 Post subject: Homeowner troubles - two phases & color/pop doesn't match
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:43 am 
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I need some advice.

I had my oak floors done in my new house. Because we had furniture in most of the rooms we split the work into 2 phases.

1st - 4 rooms, hallway, and stairs
2nd - 3 rooms

Floor contractor said no problem. When we had the sample done he also said he could "water pop" and explained what it was. My wife and I said cool. The contractor used MinWax Oil and we ended up choosing English Chestnut. Three coats of poly were included in the work. Half payment upon start. Remaining upon total completion.

1st phase started a day late, instead of Monday it was Tuesday and took 5 days (sand, stain, 1st coat 2nd coat 3rd coat) but turned out very nice. All rooms/hallway/stairs had a deep, rich color and the grains looked like a "tiger" as my wife says. Very vivid and the defined. Up to this point, the halfway product made up for some of the contractor drawbacks - lack of communication/status while we were at work, one day his secretary scared my wife with a mix-up with different house, his guys didn't set the alarm, some others but not a big deal, yet.

We were very disappointed with the 2nd phase. The color is lighter and the grains don’t have the same “tiger” affect. The floor doesn’t “pop” like the other rooms did at this stage in the process. 2 of the rooms are bedrooms and are perpendicular to the hallway so you can tell. The other room is the downstairs family room which is opposite the living room (1st phase) across a tile hallway.

2nd phase was bumped by 2 weeks and I was getting a bad feeling. The sanding and staining for the second phase was done the first day. I called the contractor and said it looks different and he said well there is no finish on it yet. I asked if his guys remembered to water “pop” and I got the "yeah" (but this was not convincing). Since we were always looking at it at night, I couldn’t tell. My wife and I gave it a day and after the 2nd coat we knew it was different. We were off that day and able to look at it in daylight and compare. The color is lighter and the grains don’t have the same “tiger” affect. The floor doesn’t “pop” like the other rooms did at this stage in the process. I called the contractor and told him our concerns and he asked what we wanted to do. He offered to redo the 2nd phase or compensate. We called back and told him we would like the 2nd phase redone. He was not very happy and told us there was no guarantee b/c batches of the same color stain could look different, that he was losing money, etc. He said fine, he would be here on Monday to start over. 10 minutes later the secretary called and basically told us they could not do Monday and we had no choice but to wait until Wednesday. She gave us the same excuses, etc. and tells us there is no guarantee it will look the same.

Even though we chose to redo the job, we can’t help but be hesitant that some “excuse” will be the scapegoat. We understand that different batches of the same stain can have a slightly different look, but in this case the difference seems to be due to the application.

Basically, did they water pop the 2nd phase? How long does it take for the water to dry – should this be left overnight to dry? Can the sand/water pop/stain be applied on the same day?


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 Post subject: Re: Homeowner troubles - two phases & color/pop doesn't match
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:00 am 
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Location: Knoxville,Tn
No real need to troubleshoot their technique. If its not acceptable then its not acceptable. Telling them how to do it is going to be a smack in the face. iF they dont know how to fix it then they dont need to redo it. More than likely its not the stain batch its in the process, ask if the same crew that did the original can do the second stage. the floor was preped diffrent than the first, they just need to repeat the original process. The longer you let the floor dry the more time the wood has to open up the grain thus the more readily it will absorb the stain.

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Heartland Hardwood Flooring
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www.HeartlandHardwoodFlooring.com


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 Post subject: Re: Homeowner troubles - two phases & color/pop doesn't match
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:08 am 
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Thanks,

I made sure I tried not to to "tell them how to do it " or "accuse them". I tried to innocently speculate. I asked about the crew and he said it was the same guys. But then asked why did he have to come up and show the guys the alarm this time. Wasn't his guys shown the first time? He said they were but didn't "get" it.

I asked him to please please take the time and we were in no rush and he said he was, but this was after the sand/stain already occured so it was OBE by that time.

I just feel like we are getting threatened that it wont come out right rather than an apology and commitment to try and make it better. He didn’t object to redoing them or even offer to come up to see them or talk about it in person (I asked) which becomes a little suspicious.

I figure I have no other choice but to try and stay home the first day. I made sure to tell the secretary that we would be taking off to be home and we will watch. If it's done the same and it still comes out different than so be it. I am just afraid of anything else happing (lap marks, puddles, etc) which I don't have now. Don't get me wrong it's not a bad job but it's not consistant.


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 Post subject: Re: Homeowner troubles - two phases & color/pop doesn't match
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:11 am 
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Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario
Definitely a difference in prep work, as Kevin says. Stain batch variations are so minimal that they alone would not give you much of a difference in colour, as you describe.
But, keep in mind for those two perpendicular rooms, the floor will always have a SLIGHT difference in the look of the colour because of the way the light will reflect off them. A quick check to see if the match is good is if the rooms appear a little lighter, step into one of them and look towards the hall. If the hall now looks slightly lighter than the room, then you have a good match.
I think in your case it was a different crew or prep that is the cause here.

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 Post subject: Re: Homeowner troubles - two phases & color/pop doesn't match
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:42 am 
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I agree on the prep work but how do I assure it is done the same? aside from "hawking" over the whole process.


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 Post subject: Re: Homeowner troubles - two phases & color/pop doesn't match
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:42 pm 
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Location: Richmond Hill, Ontario
At this point, I think that you should trust your crew to make it right, without too much interference from you. They are alert to your concerns, and are aware of why they are back.
They certainly will make all efforts to make you happy with your floor, and since phase one turned out so well, you can be comfortable with the fact that they know HOW to do the work.
Relax.

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Dennis Coles
http://www.darmaga.com


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 Post subject: Re: Homeowner troubles - two phases & color/pop doesn't match
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:22 pm 
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I know theye know how to do the work and my wife and I would like to relax but since it's eating into their budget (as I was reminded) I can't help but think there might be some shortcuts...

Tech Question - How will the two rooms that get resanded/stained and finished be merged in with the hallway. I definately don't want the hallway touched. Will there be a ridge or is the process to "fan-out" ? Or will the buildup of stain/poly bring it back close enough to buff together?


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 Post subject: Re: Homeowner troubles - two phases & color/pop doesn't match
PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 10:00 pm 
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Location: Los Angeles
most likely, since the stain was put on the first day after sanding, they did not water pop, or did not let it rest overnight after water popping. You have to let the floors dry after water popping and preferably wait overnight, to let the grain raise properly. I would not hawk, as it just makes things worse. Just be there, and they will know. The process should take 4 days with oil based poly, maybe 1 less day with water based. Be understanding. I am sure they will get it right this time around. Bear in mind this is very delicate work and if everything is not EXACTLY done according to protocol, it will look different. It is very challenging to train a crew to understand that, and frustrating, as the work is so unforgiving, and it is like landing an airplane on instrument approach alone: No room for errors, and you don't see the mistakes until you landed the plane, or attempted to :roll: . Also, understand that wood is a natural product and there are variations involved due to grain, grade, density, moisture and wood. If that room was installed at a later time or with a different species (i.e. white oak instead of red oak) it will look different. Unless you know for sure that the floors came from the same batch and the same mill at the same time, they will look slightly different.
Also, you can only do sections of a floor as long as you have a seam to hide the transition. This could be a seam that runs parallel with the directions of the strips or it could be a threshold, accent strip or a change of direction like perpendicular. Unless you have that, you will need a threshold sitting on top to hide the transition from the prior finished part. Good Luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Homeowner troubles - two phases & color/pop doesn't match
PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:14 am 
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Just curious to know if you have pictures of the seperate phases. You say the other part of the floor doesn't have the "tiger" effect. Maybe the two different areas of the house are different species? Was the flooring in the house all installed at the same time?


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