All -

This is the best resource I've found on the Net. You guys are fantastic, and I appreciate all the help you provide.

I've gotten a lot of good info here, but have also heard (from others) some conflicting advice about how I should proceed.

Here's my situation: I'm a DIYer, with help from a couple of good guys doing my home's remodeling. They don't have a great deal of flooring experience, but are good, detailed perfectionist finishers, so I trust that we can get this done well, if we have the right info to start. So here are the vitals:

- House is 35 years old, located in mid-Atlantic (hot, humid summers, cold dry winters, and everything between)
- Flooring (about 950 ft sq) to be placed on 2nd (main) floor above mostly-finished basement
- Subfloor is 5/8 ply, with no other underlayment
- Joists run front-to-back. In front half of house, joists on 12-in centers; in back half, on 16-in centers
- I'm purchasing 5-in, 3/4 KOA (Tigerwood)
- I'm planning on 30# felt (though I heard about some sound-deadening cushion, but think I'll stick with the felt)

1) I've been told by one installer that I REALLY need 3/4 subfloor, but another said no, that the 5/8 should be fine. I'm leaning towards screwing down 3/8 ply underlayment (another $500 I can't afford). Do I need to or is that a waste of time/money?

2) I was/am concerned about the 5" planks cupping. One experienced installer said he's put down the underlayment, THEN nail AND glue to it (using Gorilla glue) to keep it locked down. Everything I've seen here says no way on the glue down. Having experience with Gorilla Glue, I asked him about the glue expansion as it dries, and he said he's never had a problem. Besides adhesive strength, he also likes the glue because a urethane remover will clean it up easily without damaging the finish.
What do you think about preventing the cupping (I plan to nail every 6-8 inches or so) - should I consider glue/nail?

3) I think based on advice here and from installers I've spoken with, I'll go with nails over staples.

4) I'd rather go front-to-back in entryway, which happens to be parallel to the joists, but based on advice here that seems to be a bit dodgy (even with additional 3/8 underlayment??). How hard is it to lay at 45 -- do I (a newbie) even attempt it?

5) Biggest Question: Am I being naive about trying to install this wider hardwood myself (with help)? Thanks.


Thanks again for everything. You guys & this site are great. Heck, I'd pay a subscription fee for this info!

1) 5/8" plywood subflooring is the minimum thickness recommended by NOFMA and the NWFA. If you wish to run parallel to the joists, both organizations recommend adding 1/2" CDX plywood to the subfloor to stiffen it up and add rigidity.
2)We here have often recommended nail and glue on plank floors over 4" wide. Carlisle recommends that on their plank flooring as well. You can either full trowel a quality urethane flooring adhesive (Bostick's BST, Franklin 811, Stauf 960, Chemrex, etc.) OR run a 1/4" bead front to back every 8" of PL 400. Forget Gorilla glue.
3) Staples or cleats; either or. When gluing as well, doesn't matter.
4)Laying on a 45 isn't hard. It's the same except you're cutting the ends at 45 instead of 90. Takes a little longer and uses a little more wood.
5) If you can follow written instructions EXACTLY, you can lay a floor. You can always hire an onsite consultant to check on you. I do this for folks who want to lay their own floors

I have a PayPal account if you want to send me some money.

Check to see if the 5/8 plywood is T&G and not a 5/8 CDX squared edge. I would also recommend screwing it down or re-nail it using 2" ring or screw shanked underlayment nails.

A diagonal lay is not difficult, until you hit you hit your first doorway that you need to run under. You will need to slow down there and stop 2 rows short to figure that one out.

Sounds like a comedy team....

I appreciate the responses.

Glad to hear that the glue/nail combo was, in fact, correct for wider planks. Must have missed earlier posts on the subject.

Subfloor is, in fact, T&G. I'll probably be laying down CDX underlayment (still wrestling w/ 3/8 vs 1/2 on top of the 5/8).

For laying on a 45 (I'm actually thinking herringbone, with one plank in the middle running along the joists, then the boards splayed out in herringbone 45 fashion from that), have you ever put a trim plank around each of the walls to frame the floor? Any thoughts on whether or not to do that?

If it is a prefinished floor I would not try that, especially if it is the brand I am thinking of. All the end cuts will then have to hand beveled to match the rest and this particular finish chips real easy when cutting. The wood does not chip it is the finish itself that flakes or chips.

The beauty in Tigerwood is all those brown and black streaks and I don't know how that would look all chopped up in a herringbone pattern. It may look fine but i just can't visualize that.

Running a diagonal with a perimeter border is the most effect way of installing a diagonal in my opinion.

This is a pre-finished 3/4" x 3 1/4" Tigerwood (Koa) on a diagonal with one type of perimeter border. http://www.custom-surfaces.com/31.html

That's a beautiful floor in the pics, and relevant to my case. I guess it'll take a long time for the color to settle out (that's a really light room - how about in install that has lighter/darker rooms - do colors settle out pretty well/uniformly?). Great website, too; loads of pics.

I see you're from Roanoke -- been there a bunch, nice town; heck, maybe you did the nice floors of my friend's big new house. Too bad you're 4 hours away . Given the size of the community, with your career in home building there, you may have run across someone I know, a local builder - Lou Jamison. Anyway, great stuff.

BTW - I guess I'll level the floor with felt/shingles under my underlayment, which will be glued to the boards, correct?

Thanks, Jerry.

I don't know him personally but I know who you are talking about.

You can't glue to felt or shingles, right to the subfloor. If you have a real uneven subfloor you could use shingles, felt or 90lb roll roofing to help flatten it and then put down another layer of underlayment.

You may have to skip the glue part altogether. I have installed 5" solids before without any glue.