My mother had installed approx. 8100 sq. ft. of pre-finished 5" Zickgraf hickory flooring, I think in August. It was installed over an older concrete slab on top of sub-floor of plywood on 2"x 10" joists. Black roofing paper was used but no other moisture barrier and contractor did not test for moisture content (he said he could feel that there was no moisture problem). The flooring was brought to the sight to acclimate approx. one week before being installed. In about 1-2 wk she started seeing buckling, some severe. When asked, the contractor said he left expansion space, but when asked if he left 3/4" he said no because the baseboard wouldn't cover it. He said the only problem was that she needed at least two dehumidifiers, that there was nothing wrong with the floor (she has central air which was running at the time and he said that would put moisture into the air). Now that the humidity is gone (Ind. winter) the buckling is gone, but there are many splinters at the board edges. Is this from the pressure from buckling? Is there any way to fix this flooring without tearing up the whole floor? I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks, Terri

Whether your contractor could "feel" that there was a moisture problem or not. The buckling in the floor is an undeniable indication that there is a moisture problem. I most certainly would be suspect of the concrete slab. You can have an independent inspector evaluate your job-site. This will help in determining the cause of the problems.

The excuse of not allowing a 3/4" expansion space because the baseboard would not cover is not an excuse for not knowing how to correct this issue. If the wallboard or drywall were undercut to a height of 1" prior to the installation this would create a space of 1/2" then baseboard had a profile of 1/2" this would give a total of 1" expansion space. Or more simply a profile of baseboard that would accept an additional baseshoe installation should have been selected to accommodate the required expansion space.

I agree it sounds more like a moisture problem from the slab. Solid 5" Hickory is not the most stable of species either and extra care has to be a consideration.

Running the AC will remove moisture, not add to it. An exception to that is if the AC unit is too much over-sized for the square footage involved... then it doesn't run long enough to remove the moisture.

You will likely need the help of a NOFMA or NWFA certified wood floor inspector to make a determination.

Five inch Hickory less than 3/4" expansion? August installation? What were the conditions in the period of the acclimation? If the home was not closed up with high humidity present, the flooring was only acclimated to those conditions and not the actual living conditions. But that would cause shrinkage and not buckling. Hmmmnn....An unusually wet and humid period could be a contributing factor allowing plenty of time for the flooring to gain moisture and expand; buckle. Non acclimation of the plywood could also cause the conditions mentioned.

Both great responses from Jerry and Barquios, the latter of whom I don't think I ever thanked for joining our forum. Thanks guys!

Fix? The damage is irreversable in my opinion. I suppose you could sand the heck out of it, but the chances of the same problem happening again will rear it's ugly head whenever excessive humidity/moisture is present.



I think they call that fiber crush, but I was never good on techno names. Maybe Perry get get the manual out

Is that a typo? Not only would that be a HUGE first floor for a home, you're talking an $81K floor for materials (average from internet prices) and labor (my price, which is low compared to most areas represented here). Noone - installer, manufacturer, or builder (if a builder was involved here) - is going to eat the cost of that floor without a hard fight.

Was/is the buckling and splintering thruout the entire floor, or localized to one particular area that could be replaced (assuming the job site conditions that caused the problem is corrected)?

Oh my goodness.
This is serious !!

For a floor to buckle;;; which means lift off the sub-floor;;; a lot of moisture would have to be added to the wood flooring... more than what can be obtained from the Homes Relative Humidity. If we were looking at Relative Humidity only,, the planks would likely have compressed edges, not buckling and lifting off the sub-floor.

Your description indicates lack of properly sealing concrete vapor emissions from entering the sub-floor and wood flooring. One of those statements made to suggest concrete vapor emissions is the rapid reaction of the wood flooring.

I don't see a way to repair this floor, Unless there is data not stated in your post.

I would like to welcome Bargious too. He/she knows their stuff from what I have been reading. Also this site needs more people to keep a watch on Ray.

I noticed that figure too. I hoped it was a typo. Otherwise...ouch!

Thanks for the welcome Ken and Jerry.

I enjoy the challenge of problem solving and helping others. It also keeps me sharp when it comes to my own job-sites by covering different problems amongst fellow professionals.

Hey Jerry,
Good to see you still have your sense of humor after all this time. When they let you out?

Just pulling your leg Ray , this place needs some more inspectors.

if your floor is buckled then you could of left 6" at the walls and still had a problem. 8100 sf is a ton of flooring on one level your talking 10 pallets of wood flooring there. My guess is that floor was popcorn dry when installed even with the little bit of acclimation time. measure a set of 25 boards and see what you come up with. If its under 125" then thats going to show that its was real dry when it was installed. Has any body put a meter on it yet?
Ok I reread your post and you say that the floor has layed back down, that being said I have never seen a buckled floor lay back down. A slight cup yes, buckled no. Sounds like you are having big swings in rh. with that much flooring you will need control the enviroment better to stop the movement. Control the enviroment control the movement.

Thank you all for your responses!
-I will have my husband check his measurements for sq. ft.
-It is a re-model of a barn that my parents were living in 1/4 for 20+ years. The remaining was re-modeled with the woodflooring in question in the great room. The concrete was there before they purchased in 1975.
-The contractor said he put a meter on the boards and the reading was good.
-He did not get a meter reading on the concrete, he said he could tell by laying his hand on it that there was no moisture problem. He did not seal the concrete in any way. The only moisture barrier he said he used was the black roofing paper.
-The buckling was not over the entire floor. I would say about 1/3 of the room had some, ranging from slight to severe. The most severe (raised about 3") he had left no expansion room. He came back and fixed that.
-The plywood was down for probably a couple of months. The home was closed up when flooring was brought in to acclimate.
The contractor is asking my mother what she wants him to do. She has no idea what to tell him. She is holding his last check, which makes him very unhappy (the flooring is not the only issue). He got hoppin' mad when I questioned him about expansion space, moisture content, moisture barrier, ect. (all information I gained from your site).
I guess he should first go back and cut the proper expansion space.
A couple ideas that have been suggested are 1)to branch off of the ductwork under the floor so there is heat & ac blowing underneath, 2)to cut 2" vents in the floor to allow movement of air. Are either of these good attempts to try to alleviate moisture that may be trapped under the floor?
Again, thank you for your guidance. You have provided us with a source if information when we didn't know where to turn. Terri

Terri,

From what I read, I would be surprised if this floor can be saved. As a matter of fact the amount of moisture you have described as having been introduced to the floor is a very significant amount. The source of the moisture must be fixed before any resolution of the appearance and performance issues of your flooring can be addressed.

Furthermore, I would be concerned about mold & dryrot problems if an attempt to remedy the problem did not stop the introduction of moisture, and instead tried to ventilate the problems away.

Additionally, merely exposing the concrete slab to seal in only the portion that showed problems now, would allow the moisture to travel though the concrete to other unsealed areas. This might not be enough moisture to effect as dramatic effects as you already experienced but could easily create the mold and mildew issues that the insurance industry is reeling from.

In addition to obtaining the services of an independent certified inspector, I would recommend discussing the issues with your home owners insurance agent, and begin preparing for the fact: you might be forced into legal action.

Ya, he got "hop'n mad"

You have caught him cutting corners.

Roofing felt is not a moisture barrier. and seems to be the whole root of the problem.

Although, you say the swelling has receeded, since the humidity has been lowered, it sounds like not enough expansion space was left in the installation, not just perimeter expansion space. a 5" wide board, can swell considerably, with just a 3% gain in moisture content. 2" in 10 feet(or 20 rows)


This sounds(won't know for sure, without being there myself) like a total installation related failure.

Exactly Perry....