I've done a lot of research and something that I though was going to be fairly simple has become much more of a project. I do feel more knowledgeable, but still have some questions. Here's the overview:

350 sqft addition on 1950's southern California home. I want to put new hardwood in three separate areas:

1. New bedroom - This is all 3/4" T&G OSB subfloor
2. Existing den/hallway - Currently has 3/4" hardwood laid directly on 1 x 6 planks (I think) that are nailed at 45 degrees to floor joists
3. The living room which half is like #1 and the other half is like #2


Here are the questions I still have:

Subfloor/underlayment:

Based on my two different types of subfloor, should an underlayment still be used like I've seen described elsewhere. 1/2" plywood or something with a moisture barrier between the subfloor and the underlayment?

Moisture:

Being in a mostly dry climate (with the exception of some rain in the winter months) are there any moisture precautions my installer should take? Should he test moisture level? Are there any types of wood I should avoid?

Flooring:

I know I can use Solid hardwood flooring. Can I use engineered as well? If so why would I choose one over the other?


Although this board has created more questions for me it has already answered quite a bit as well.

Thanks

Todd

Todd,

If those two different types of subflooring are both flat, secure (no squeeks) and even with each other, I see no reason to use 1/2" plywood underlayment, unless you need to make the subfloor stiffer. Both of those subfloor products are NOFMA approved. You should have the new flooring run at a 45 to 90 degree angle to the floor joists.

It is ALWAYS advisable to moisture test your subfloors. A moisture pin meter is commonly used for wood subfloors. And NOFMA, the NWFA and most flooring manufacturers insist on a 6 mil polyethylene vapor retarder installed under the house covering the soil. This is extra insurance against cupping and warping from moisture in the earth under the house.

You can certainly use engineered if you prefer. Prefinished engineered floors will require the subfloors be especially flat and secure and to that end, you MAY want to have a 3/8" or 1/2" plywood underlayment installed. Engineered floors typically do not impart as much additional strength as a solid 3/4" wood floor will. Engineered floors were and are designed to go over concrete and on grade subfloors, places where solid wood shouldn't be used. And engineered floors are more dimensionally stable. But in your situation, you can use either, solid or engineered. If the proper precausions and prep is done, you can pretty much select any flooring you wish.

The saga continues......

I have spent a lot of time talking to my local hardwood supplier. I have six samples sitting on my floor trying to figue out what type of wood we want.

My wife loved Sapele, but we thought it might be too dark for what we wanted, so we have four different Maple samples.

I first went to the supplier thinking I'd be looking at 3/4 solid hardwood. The supplier said the solid has more tendancy to cup or move and kind of talked me out of it. However in reading more on this site, I don't know if that was the best decision. What I've seen here is that if someone had a floor that would allow any type of wood, most would choose solid.

I was originally thinknig of doing it myself (glued engineered) but after reading here it seems like that may be the most difficult install. So if I choose to have it installed, it cuts my budget almost in half and would have to start from scratch on the floors we could look at.

Basically, I was hoping to get a better floor (looking at Mirage, Lauzon, LM and other) by saving the installation cash.

So here is my list of questions this time.

1. Which type of floor is better in my situation - I know I can use any type based on the subfloor I have, but what are the pros and cons of solid and engineered in my situation? Which is more stable, which requires a more precise subloor..etc.

2. Which is easier to install. Glued engineered or Solid?

Thanks

Todd

Basically, a nailed down solid 3/4" floor is easier to install, IMO. You shouldn't have any cupping problems unless you fail to observe the manufacturer's instructions. Or you live over a swamp! No wood floor is "easy" but I think, outside of a floater, a nail down is easier. But I guess it's what you're used to. A thin engineered will require an underlayment and a very flat substrate. A solid 3/4" will impart more strength to the floor and won't require an underlayment. Solid wood floors are not as dimesionally stable as engineered floors are but unless you have major swings in interior temperature and humidity, you should be fine. Cupping is due to excessive moisture vapor from below so make sure to install the poly vapor retarder as recommended by NOFMA, the NWFA and most manufacturers. I prefer solid wood floors when possible.

I'm afraid I'm reaching analysis paralasis.

We have decided on one thing. We want a hand scraped floor. The floor will be in a high traffic area with kids. Plus we have an older home and like that look.

I've leared that because I want hand scraped, my choices for solid wood have been cut way down. So I'm now opening options back up to engineered.

Like I said eariler, ease of installation is important as well. So maybe I should bee looking at solid hand scraped and engineered that can be nailed to the subfloor.

All the infomation I've gathered has got me to the point where I can't find the "perfect" floor. I don't even know what I need to ask right now, but hoping you pro's here can give me some more "what would you do" regarding my situation.

This board has been a source of great info so far.

Thanks

There are lots of 9/16" engineered, handscraped wood plank floors on the market that can be stapled/nailed down. I would NOT suggest going over 5" in width if you are stapling only, with 3" to 4" being preferable. If you want a wider engineered plank floor, you should glue it down to a 3/8" (minimum) CDX plywood underlayment that has been well fastened to your subfloors. The solid, 3/4" handscraped floors are typically MORE money but don't require an underlayment. But again, if you are going over 5" in width, gluing plus nailing that solid plank floor is a wise idea. Keep in mind, nearly ALL of the engineered floors are shorter in length than solid wood floors, with 42" to 48" often the maximum lengths, with shorter lengths mixed in. Solid floors will have some longer lengths as well as some shorts. When getting a scraped floor, the end butts will not scraped as well, which will highlight the lengths of the boards. That bothers some folks if there are lots of shorts but others don't seem to care. Keep looking around. THe perfect floor is out there for you. Have you seen these?
http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwo ... -award.htm

Thanks again for the response Gary.

It was a good weekend in the world of flooring decisions in my family. My pregnant wife and I (she's due in 5 days) went and looked at some model homes for some more ideas. We found a floor we love and went back to our local supplier/installer and took a sample home.

The flooring is 9/16” x 5” engineered with a 1/4” wear layer. Its called Garrison II and wanted to know if anyone had thoughts/experience/opinions on it.

We have two samples at home. One is a Maple expresso and the other is antique walnut. We like the walnut a little better, but being that it is a softer wood, it concerns us. However, the floor is hand scraped, so do we REALLY need to worry about it, or will the small dings/dents add to the beauty of a hand scraped floor?

I haven't decided if I'm going to do it myself or not, but I know for part of the install it will be running paralell to the joists. So my plan is to put down 3/8" plywood over the entire subfloor we plan on doing. From what I've read, here's my plan.

Ensure subfloor is level per manufactureres instructions

Put some 15# roofing paper down between subfloor and plywood as a moisture retarder/noise reducer (squeaks from wood on wood).

Staple the plywood to subfloor (what type of staples are recommended?)

Install the floor.

Looking for input on the company, the walnut, and the prep plan.

Thanks

Garrison II?

Same identical stuff here at half the price.

ouch.

he should have checked this site out first.

Actually, I haven't bought any of it yet.

My local supplier had Antique Walnut for 6.74/sf and Maple Espresso for 6.06/sf.

So the price difference isn't too bad.

Knowing that, do you see any quality difference between the two? Being that the cost appears to be the big benefit of the naturally aged, if they were the same price would you choose one over the other?

We should be OK picking the color/wood we want based on the Garrison II samples right?

Any input on the other questions from my previous post?

Thanks

I know both those products and Ken's right. Naturally aged is identical for less dough. Both pretty good floors. Garrison 11 lengths are up to 4'. Naturally Aged is up to 5'. I'd get Naturally Aged if cost was about the same. Remember, if you buy locally, there won't be shipping but there will sales tax. If you buy from Ken here, there won't be sales tax. Depending on the size of your order, that aspect may be a wash. About walnut, it will get much LIGHTER in color if exposed to direct sunlight. Best to get a floor that has been stained. About stapling underlayment; I use 16 gauge staples with a 7/16" crown and 1&1/4" legs for 3/8" plywood. You could screw it down if you have lots of time.

Thanks Gary as usual.

The antique walnut here appears to be a stained product so should maintain a consistent color. But how about the hardness of walnut in comparison to the maple? Do we need to be concerned since this is a hand scraped floor anyway?

As you know, walnut is somewhat softer. But both woods will dent and scratch. I just did a whole house of N. American Walnut and it was surprisingly harder than I anticipated. I can't explain that. Walnut is rated at 1010 PSI, Red Oak at 1290 and Maple at 1400. I don't think there is a huge difference in performance on a practical basis. All will dent and scratch. To get a noticable difference in performance, you would need to get into S. American exotics like Patagonian Rosewood and Ipe at over 3800 PSI.

I'm planning on resheeting the floor myself. Should I be able to rent a stapler? If so what kind should I get?

Thanks

Read this discussion:

http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwo ... php?t=3600