Hello. I recently had engineered cherry hard wood floors put down. I am seeing gaps about a 1/4 inch throughout the house. They were professionally installed and recommended as a great option for radiant floor heat. When they were installing them they used glue and no vapor barrier of any sort. They told us there was no need for this and glue and staples would work great. After speaking to a few people I have been told this was bad advice and they should have known better. Can anybody shed some light on what is to be expected and if they installed them wrong. This company has been a nightmare and I will not pay them until it is done correctly. Any advice would be great.

I am assuming you have a concrete subfloor? If so was a moisture test done on the slab? Did they use straps to hold the flooring together while the glue set up? Was the flooring allowed to acclimate prior to the installation?

Did you have the radiant heat on before the install? 1/4" gaps are huge!

Turn off or at least turn down the radiant heat.

Heat dries out wood. Wood shrinks in dimensions when it loses moisture.

Which part were you told was bad advice?

The floor was placed on top of plywood, not a concrete slab. I spoke with the company that manufactures the wood and they said gluing was actually Ok and that some people use a vapor barrier and others don't. The humidity level in the house is between 35 - 40% and I have a device outside that regulates the radiant heat so that we don't get drastic shifts in temperature. From what I have been told we are doing everything right. The installer is coming out to take a look, but thinks the wood itself was defective or not properly dried before it was sent out. Any thoughts. The manufacture said they would probably have to rip it up and lay it again, but I want to make sure this does not happen twice.

Uh oh, this is where voodoo math comes in to play. I take it no one tested the substrate or the woods moisture content before installation?

Sounds like you hit it on the nose.

Chrispratt, The installer actually said "not properly dried before it was sent out"? He obviously would have known this if he tested before installing 1/4" gaps are drastic, actually hard to believe gaps that size. That hardwood would have been pegging the meter

Wood is hygroscopic.
It swells with added moisture gain and shrinks with a loss of moisture.

We can all come to the conclusion the wood has lost moisture since it was installed.


Acclimation, acclimation, acclimation!

to get 1/4" gaps in an eng.floor thats glued and nailed there is something up. It would have had to been milled soaking wet, or if it got wet after it was milled it would have been so distorted that you would have never got the stuff to go together. Or quite possibly you have cooked it with the radiant heat. A good installer knows installation equals acceptance, as the professional they are responsible to make sure all materials and site conditions are proper at time of installation. Its the homeowners responsibility to make sure these conditions are maintained to ensure the proper performance of the floor while in service.

UPDATE, please help.

So it seems I am in a game of "pass the buck" The installer came out to the house the other day and made all sorts of claims. One, the house is moving and this is the cause. I had a builder come out and after looking over the whole house he said this was a ridicules claim and the house shows know signs of movement. The installer then guessed that the wood was wet and the radiant was drying it out.

Preverco (company that makes the wood) sent someone out this morning. He said he has never seen these types of gaps. Note: gaps are at the ends, NOT the sides and that it could be an installation issue. He said the wood was not wet. He took humidity readings throughout the house and said all normal range.

So now I have the installer saying its the wood, and the wood supplier saying it could be the installer. Someone please shed some light on this. Anybody ever deal with Preverco? What should I do, it seems all parties are trying to pass the buck. I just want some answers at this point.

The one person who does not intall wood for a living seems to be the only person with some sort of answer and its all on my dollar. He thinks because it is only hapening in one area of the house, that this particular box of wood was "wet" and shrunk more then the other. I am just so pissed that both the installer and the wood company all agree it shouldn't look like this but won't step up. Now they are sending someone out to measure the staples and how much glue was used.

Some side notes

House is 7 years old.
No signs of cracks in Drywall or any kind of house shifting
Installer did not use vapor barrier
Used an "s" pattern for gluing
gaps are at top joints in entry way not on sides
All gaps are in one area, with a few others scattered around house (not many other though?

Not sure why you keep mentioning a vapor barrier on a radient heated floor or why anyone would use one. My thoughts are it would hinder the effect of the heat so why?

Another reason might be the plywood was wet in that area and your seeing panelization due to plywood shrinking. Has anyone checked the moisture of the plywood below the hardwood? What temp are you running your heat at? Can you check the temp of the floor everywhere and that spot with an infared laser?

But you could be right about that one box. Gotta look at everything before drawing any conclusions.

I guess its a install paper underlayment. The house is 7 years old with radiant all those years. I would suspect the plywood would be dry?

?

Yes I would too. Perhaps a small leak? Can you pressure test your system?

When you say the builder took humidity readings....was that using a hygrometer? Has anyone checked using a pin meter and at different depths into the flooring and subfloor?

No leaks. We have a finished basement and I removed the ceiling tiles. Bone dry.

Preverco came out and set some type of device on the floor to get a reading. He said "I have never seen anything like this" Which surprised me, my builder said he see's it time to time.