Sorry for the long post.

I have a brand new 3/4 " 5 1/4" Wide Hardwood Floor installed recently over 1100 SQFT Red Oak Grade 1 hand scraped on 5/8" Ply wood nailed down on concrete floor.

Problem is I have squaking all over the place. When I walk on it it makes squeaking noise but it goes away if I walk right after it. Problem resurfaces after I leave the floor unwalked for few hours. The sound is similar to the one if you walk on fallen dry leaves in the yard. Along with this I also have cracking noise at the ends also.

This floor has been nailed down for 4 weeks and scraped, sanded and buffed for a week now.

The installer came on a rainy day with the plywood in an open flatbed truck without any cover. When I asked him if the plywood got saoked he said no. I did not actually verify if the plywood
to see if it actually got soaked or not. Few hours later they put a black ploy sheet and nailed down the plywood and few more hours later they nailed down the 5 1/4" wood planks also on the same day.

They came back 10 days later to do the hand scraping but when I informed them that the floor is squeaking alll over they wnet back and wanted the floor to acclaimatize for 10 more days.

They came back 10 days later but the squeaking did not stop. I have asked them to explain me the reasoning and assure me that this will not cause a problem down the road. Installer assured me that the floor will stop making noises after they srape, sand, buff and put several coats of Ploy.

The reason the installer gave me at up until this point was that the floor is brand new and has never been walked upon. At tht time I thought they were right.

Well, after sanding, buffing, ploy etc is done the squeaking did not go away as promised. Installer came back few dayslater and injected Expoxy at several places and assured me this will fix the problem.

I was not sure if that was going to fix the problem as there were far too many places making noises than he injected the Expoxy. It sure did not fix the problem. Now he wants to come back and do the Epoxy filling
in few other places again.


I am a bit at loss.

1) What kind of a problen do I have at hand? Can this be fixed with Epoxy? Or do I need to rip everything apart and start over again? I am planning on selling this house and last thing I want to do after spending huge amount of money is some one walking in to the house
and think that there is a problem with the floor.


2)Is it normal for the Plywood and 5 1'4" to be nailed down on the same day or are they supposed to let it sit in the house 7-10 days and nail it down then?

3) Also did the fact that it rained the day they brought the plywood and wood in an open flatbed truck cause any problem? I did not have the opportunity to see if it actually got saoked but the
installer claims it did not.

4) Does Expoxy actually fix the problem or the installer just thinks the problem is a nail because he has a hammer?


I still need to make 40 % payment. Am I doing the right thing if I hold the payment until this problem is fixed?

Any suggestions please ????

1) Hard to say but from your information, it sounds as if it was a "hurry up" job. Probably not salvageable without completely dismantling. BTW, I would NOT have done it this way.

2) Acclimation is recommended, depending on temp and MC measurements taken. Were there any measurements taken re: moisture content of the wood products?

3) IF the plywood got wet, that could be a problem.

4) It can in certain circumstances. I do not know if this is one of them or not because I cannot see or measure your floor from behind my computer screen.

In this instance, I think you would be well advised to get an independent inspection from a certified NWFA Flooring Inspector. I understand you owe the guy money. Explain to him you have given him ample attempts at fixing the problem but now, you are deciding to get an inspection before you can pay the final bill. Then get an inspection ASAP. Don't drag this out as it will make it seem like you do not want to pay and are a dead beat. Go to this link and select an inspector in your area.
http://www.nwfacp.org/findCp.aspx

Thanks Gary.

What do you mean by BTW I would NOT have done it this way. ?

NO MC measurements were ever taken.

I have a meeting with the guy tomorrow morning and I am going to give him one last chance to explain and convince me how he can fix this problem.

I understand I do not want to be seen as a dead beat. I think we are not at that point at least not yet as the installer still wants to rectify the problem.

My concerns was is he just trying to conceal the problem with temp fixes.

I made contact with with a certified Pro after made my posting. He also advised to talk to the installer and give him an opportunity to explain and one last chance to fix it. We will see.

From what I gather from your posting that I may not be in a good situation.


Apart from plywood getting wet and not acclaimatizing what others things could have caused this problem? Spacing of nails, nail sizes, nail quality, pressure used to nail etc? Any other things that I can ask the installer when he shows up tomorrow?

Thanks again.

The recommended thickness of a plywood underlayment on concrete for a 3/4" nail down floor is 3/4", not 5/8". Cause for problems # 1

Not acclimating or bringing into equilibrium the flooring and plywood to the interior home environment. Cause for problems # 2

Installing a 5&1/4" solid plank by using blind nailing only. Cause for problems # 3

Not measuring the MC of the concrete, the plywood or the flooring. Cause for problems # 4




When I've installed a solid over concrete in the past, I get a moisture content measurement FIRST, to see what I am dealing with. I then choose the right kind of moisture barrier based on this info. I do not like a nailed down only plywood underlayment on concrete. I have seen enough failures to convince me this is not a long lasting installation. I prefer to use a moisture barrier that I can glue and nail the plywood to. OR, I will use a floating plywood substrate. But nailing only is doomed to fail, IMHO. My method costs more but is full proof, as the plywood is glued and nailed. Then, with a 5"+ plank, I would have glued and nailed that as well. I would have been taking moisture readings all along before proceeding to the next step. IMO, the problem may very well be an uneven concrete slab that was not flattened, followed by a too thin plywood underlayment that was not firmly attached. Then followed by a wide plank that was nailed only. All this will result in the flexing of the "system", creating squeaks, creaks and noises. I cannot see how injecting epoxy here and there will rectify this install.

Thanks Gary.

Just to make things clear. They did put what looked like a plastic sheet ( Just overlayed on the concrete ), and then put the plywood and nailed the plywood down. On top of the Plywood they put a black asphalt like thing they called moisture barrier.

Do not know if thatmakes any difference in your assumptions or not.

Mostly, this is just a corroboration of what Gary has already told you, since he seems to have covered all the basics of your problem, and the correct solution. ( I just feel chatty today)
The crackling sound you hear when first walking on the floor is quite common on a new installation, and usually goes away with time.
However, that is only the case in a properly installed floor; which you dont have.
A board in excess of 5 inches cannot be successfully fastened to 5/8th plywood that is fastened to concrete. The nails will be too short, or; and this is a big or, they will hit the concrete and bend, which could be a cause of the noise you are hearing. Dont think I need to tell you how to fix that.
If the installer used the correct length of fastener (1 1/2 inch) to avoid hitting the concrete, then the nail pattern would need to be 4 to 6 inches, and even then with the rows of nails so far apart, supplimental gluing would be absolutely necessary.
Good luck on the removal, perhaps you can salvage some of the material for reuse during the proper installation.

I know, I read that. To re-iterate. I do not think nailing the plywood to concrete only is adequate. IMO, it should be glued as well. Now, there are those who say it can be done and do it that way. All I can say is that I have seen those fail. I have yet to to a glued and nailed fail. Your's was only nailed. I also think the slab may have been uneven. When this is the case, the plywood cannot conform very well and the result will be flexing. When one get's flexing in the substrate, the flooring flexes as well, which can and will cause noise. I cannot say from here exactly what the problem is because I cannot see it or hear it. That is why I recommended an inspection. You wanted opinions. You have them.

Do you have any earth magnets?

If so, they will find the fasteners, and tell us how far apart the fasteners are.

I di dnot think about the magnets. I will sure try this and let you know. BTW. How does a magnet distinguish between a nail that was used to nail down the plywood vs nail used to nail the 5 1/4" wood plank?

Does a stud finder do the job also?