Great news Chris..

Keep us posted....hope it all works out positively.


James

So tell us, who is the manufacturer of this cherry product that told you this was ok?

UPDATE. Please help

So I am still in a battle with my flooring company over the delamantion STILL. Attached please find there report from a rep. NOT a floor inspector. I am thinking I need to get a floor inspector to come out to the house. Someone recommended a guy but he is NOFMA /MFMA certified? Is that gonna stand up in court? Thanks again for all your help. Any thoughts on the inspection they did? ALSO, do I need a NWFA certified inspector. Please someone advise if they think I am throwing more money into a bad situation. At this point I wish I NEVER put the floor in.





INSPECTION REPORT


Inspection Date: April 6, 2011, 2011


Parties Present: David Pierce; Preverco Hardwood
Roman Pasquerella; Wyman Design



Dealer/Distributor: Wyman Design
Lebanon, NH


Inspection Location:
Occupancy: 2 Adults
1 Child
1 Dog

Preverco Product:
900 sq. ft. of 5 3/16” Engenius Cherry Antique installed over radiant heat.


Reason for Inspection: Delamination

Product History:

Invoice Number and Date:

Installation Date: August, 2010

Occupied Date: Prior to installation

Notice of Concern Date: Early March, 2011

Statement of Homeowner: Wants it fixed one time and only one time or replace it.

Visual Observations:
1 visibly delaminating board
Several hollow sounding boards when tapped
Slight cupping on several boards
1 board with lamella checking
End joint separation (also seen in January 10,2011 inspection)

Testing:

Humidity and Temperature
At the time of inspection:

The Relative Humidity in the living room first floor where the wood is installed was 35%, and the temperature was 64 degrees and the floor temperature was 66 degrees. Heat was on. (Extech Hygro – Thermometer and infrared)
The Relative Humidity in the finished basement was 30% with a temperature of 62 degrees. (Extech Hygro – Thermometer and infrared)

Moisture and Measurement Readings
At the time of inspection:

Moisture Readings using a Wagner MMC 220 on the wood flooring was between 4-5% at 12 locations. (Normal readings are between 6-9%)

Installation and other physical tests
At the time of inspection:

The nailing schedule was tested in random areas with the use of “rare earth magnets”. The staple pattern appears to be well within Preverco’s installation guidelines.

The gun used to install the flooring was a Senco-SLS 20 HF Hardwood stapler. This gun is equipped with a base plate. The staples the installer used were one (1”) long.

Homeowner states sub-floor is plywood, with a minimum of ¾” thick, if not thicker.

Warranty and Industry Standards:

The Preverco’s maintenance instructions advise to “Maintain proper humidity conditions within your home. It is recommended that the humidity level stay in the recommended range between 45% and 55% throughout the year. Problems related to humidity level variations can be minimized by proper ventilation, humidifying, dehumidifying or heating.” (printed 03/08)

Hardwood Floors Oct/Nov 2009 “Stressful Situations” By Dan Blake
Page 33-34 Hardwood Floors Magazine. (Copy attached)


Conclusions
Dry cupping, low humidity/moisture readings, delamination, and end joint gapping are all known symptoms of dry stress.

Wood is hygroscopic and will expand in humid conditions and contract in drier conditions. Preverco suggests that the environment be maintained between 45% - 55% relative humidity. On the day of the inspection, the relative humidity was measured between 30 and 35% in the home. The heating season is commonly a very dry period and requires the use of humidifiers to maintain recommended humidity.



Final Statement:
Based on the information provided on the two sight inspections and industry related information, we can conclude that this floor is delaminating do to sight related conditions and not a manufacturing defect.

Thats the typical manufacturer cop-out generic report. They keep it on file and just add names. lol

The requirement for rh is astoundingly high....45% - 55%?!! Engineered should not delaminate in low rh period. It can cause checking and splitting issues. Plus he spelled "site" wrong.

In the U.S.A we have whats called the HPVA; hardwood plywood veneer association, they have the same standard as the Canadian hardwood plywood veneer association in which they have a written standard about any hardwood plywood delaminating. Unless your house was flooded and baked three times then and only then should the plys delaminate a little bit around the edges. lol

http://www.chpva.com/index.php/en/home.html

Please, tell me more. Anything that will help my case

Well one of the outs they like to use and most liekly will next is that the product is manufacturered out of country so they do not have to comply, or they did not state anywhere their product is produced to conform to that standard.

Here is a snippet of the old standard, pretty sure there is a newer version, at least there is in the U.S. It does not cost money to access these standards, you just sign up at the websites.

ANSI/HPVA EF 2002:

A4.2:
as may occur with flooding due to plumbing leaks or excessively wet concrete slabs can result in surface checks or, at extreme conditions, discoloration of the wood surface.

3.9 Moisture Content - upon manufacture:
The average moisture content of the flooring shall be between 5% and 5% at the time of shipment from the manufctuers plant.


The American National Standard for Engineered Wood Flooring, ANSI/HPVA EF 2002
3.5 Bond Line – All adjacent surfaces of each ply shall be uniformly and securely
bonded. The flooring shall conform to the requirements of the bond test described in 4.2
3.7 Construction – The flooring pieces shall be of balanced construction, which means
that they are free from warp or twist to the extent that they do not interfere with the
installation or negatively affect the intended use of the product. The purpose of this
requirement is to provide a product which will perform satisfactorily over the typical
range of humidity and temperature in an indoor environment, when installed according to
the instructions of the manufacturer. Any construction with an even or odd number of
plies, and any combination of thicknesses and shrinkage characteristics that meets the
requirement for balanced construction is permitted. No two adjacent plies shall have
coinciding openings greater than 12.7 mm (1/2 inch)
4.2 Bond Line Test – Two test speciments, 50.8 mm (2 inches) wide by 127 mm (5
inches) along the grain, shall be cut from each flooring sample tested. The specimens
shall be cut from opposite sides of the flooring after all tongue and groove portions have
been removed. The specimens shall be submerged in water at 24 C+-3C (75 F +-5F) for 4
hours, and then dried at a temperature between 49 and 52 C (120 and 125 F) for 19 hours,
with sufficient air circulation to lower the moisture content (based on oven-dry weight) of
the specimens to a maximum of 8 percent. This cycle shall be repeated until all
specimens fail or until thr ee cycles have been completed, whichever occurs first. The
flooring shall be considered as failing when any single delamination between two plies of
either specimen is greater than 50.8 mm (2 inches) in continuous length, over 6.4 mm
(1/4 inch) in depth at any pint, and 0.08 mm (.003 inch) in width as determined by a
feeler gauge 0.08 mm (0.003 inches) thick and 12.7 mm (1/2 inch) wide. Specimens shall
be examined for delamination at the end of each cycle. Delamination due to tape at joints
or inner plies or defects allowed by the grade shall be disregarded. For performing the
bond line test, the flooring samples shall be selected in multiples of ten in order to
provide for a sufficient number of specimens (two specimens per sample) to which the
acceptance levels are applied. Ninety-five percent of test specimens shall pass the first
cycle, and eighty- five percent of test specimens shall pass the third cycle.

Also, since the person who wrote that report referred to an article in a magazine, you can refer to this one, still in his article did it say complete delamination was the cause of low rh or just issues like checking and splitting? I have not read it.

http://www.fcimag.com/Articles/Feature_ ... 0000403305

His article actually said that Rh in the range of 30-50% was fine. So I don't know why he sent it. It seems to against his argument?

Sounds like a slam dunk on your end.

You would think so, but I hate to say it. I think I am headed down the lawyer road.....ugh.

I just wish Peverco or the company selling the product would stand behind it. Seems like the just want to pass blame.

From the NWFA Guidelines....

APPENDIX H
RADIANT HEAT INSTALLATIONS
With radiant heat, the heat source is directly beneath the flooring, so the flooring may dry out
faster than a similar floor in a home with a conventional heating system. Wood flooring can be
installed over radiant heat as long as you understand radiant heat and how it can impact wood
flooring, what precautions to take, and what type of wood flooring to use.
Types of wood flooring that are best suited-for radiant heat subfloor are products that possess
improved dimensional stability such as:
• Engineered wood flooring is more dimensionally stable than solid wood flooring.
• Certain species are known for their inherent dimensional stability such as North American oak,
American cherry, American walnut and others. Denser species such as maple and Brazilian
cherry are less stable.
• Quartersawn and rift-sawn wood flooring is more dimensionally stable in width than plain sawn
wood flooring.
• Narrow boards are more dimensionally stable than wide boards.