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 Post subject: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:24 am 
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have a anderson virginia vintage black walnut handscraped floor that was glued down using taylor 3n1 adhesive.final cleaning was done using mineral spirits and bona cleaner.the customer soon after install complained the floor was not clean. several attemts to remove a whiteish appearance in the handsrcaping and wirewheel areas of the boards with different removers failed.nobody is really sure what the issue is ,if its the floor or a contaminate. an inspection from anderson resulted in a no fault conclusion that this was the charictaristic of the floor.independant inspection hired by customer claimed reaction from surface glue and removal attemps the cause(but every board that has aggressive scaping over 1000ft?).there is no smoothe surface problems only in the handscaping is it visable.seems impossible tho get the fine wirewheel ,grooves and hanscraping from accepting contaminates during installation.any ideas on saving this floor from total repacement?(of course it was a discontinued item).is it possible to use the bona recoat process on such a floor with all the hanscraping ?should i expect manufacturer to assist more due to following thier intsallation guidelines or is the total burden on myself as the installer? have pics but cant seem to upload them to the post.any advise is appreciated never had a floor react this way.
thanks rick


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 Post subject: Re: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:09 pm 
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get pics up man..or get them somewhere on the web, youtube,flickr etc and piost a link..

I am curious as well..

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 Post subject: Re: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:25 pm 
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/79900414@N02/


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 Post subject: Re: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:56 pm 
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Looks like drywall dust. Is that possible?

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Howard Chorpash
Frazier Mountain Hardwood
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 Post subject: Re: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Did you vacuum before you used any cleaner? If not that cleaner embedded the dust into the recesses.

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 Post subject: Re: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:39 am 
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I think you need to experiment with mineral spirits..

is it possible another agent was used like Lacquer thinner? this can turn white with humidity..

try take some spirits and let it soak, then use a soft scrub brush and see if it cleans it...(deck scrubber available at any hardware..soft bristle..

get ready to get on your knees and scrub old school by hand then wipe dry with clean cloth..

its possible the spirits were still on floor when Bona cleaner was used> this may be the result..

i would use the spirits as mentioned..let it dry over night and ventilate..then go back and clean with a floor cleaner..

you may also try using a fine scrub pad on your buffer...this will not harm the finish...

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 Post subject: Re: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:32 pm 
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Ya I tried the spirits with a scrub brush no difference.the white goes away when wet with cleaners then returns when dry which I thought was a problem with the top coat and not a embedded substance .


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 Post subject: Re: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:22 pm 
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Interesting.....

dont know man... guess like in anything else, you need to experiment..do some test swatches of finish..

shellac and laquer have those white effects usually.

maybe in an inconspicuous spot, do a light sanding and coat..like a closet..see the results..

you can then do the tykote or Universal sealer then a coat..Parks has a recoat system using their sealer as a bond coat..

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 Post subject: Re: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:47 pm 
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Quote:
maybe in an inconspicuous spot, do a light sanding and coat..like a closet..see the results..

you can then do the tykote or Universal sealer then a coat..Parks has a recoat system using their sealer as a bond coat..


Problem is...how do you tell the customer, there goes your warranties from Anderson.

"the customer soon after install complained the floor was not clean"
How long after? Did the job have the haze when you left it? Like Stephen said....did you vacume any dust before going over it with mineral spirits and Bona? Somehow we're not hearing the whole story, by you, or what transpired in the home after you left the job.

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 Post subject: Re: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:56 am 
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The floor was swept and vaccumed before cleaning.first cleaning before the complaint was at night and nothing was noticeable.second trip after complaint was just to clean what we thought might be missed areas due to poor cleaning in bad lighting.it's not very noticeable unless looked upon at angles of direct sunlight.went and tested some cleaners and brushes on a few areas and thought we were making progress .test boards looked better at the time we left then 15 minutes down the road customer called and said white area returned.is there some kind of topcoat or stain that I could work into these impressions?


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 Post subject: Re: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:30 pm 
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Years ago, my old boss put in some firebird quarter sawn walnut. For some reason, firebird told him they recommend using natural / neutral stain on the floor before coating with oil poly . Their reason was related to open grain turning white.

However, years later , I worked on a nice walnut plank floor and simply coated with three coats of oil poly and there were no white issues anywhere.I'm thinking that the whiting problem with your floor is manufacturer related as well as species related. And I think that a possible solution will be to re coat the floor very carefully.

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 Post subject: Re: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:26 pm 
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Quote:
I'm thinking that the whiting problem with your floor is manufacturer related as well as species related.


Right after installation? Sorry, if it's not coming out of the box that way...good luck with that.

Although some of these handscraped/distressed floors can be a maintenance nightmare. If there's open grain, ( soft grain taken out during the distressing process), how in the world is a consumer suppose to maintain a floor like that, on a day to day basis. What a PITA. I know out here, in Vegas...everyone gets dust in their house no matter what. I don't see how you can keep a floor like that clean. That to me is manufacturer related. But if an installer doesn't vacume the crud out of a floor with that type of distressing,( a broom probably locks dust into the grain)...it's on the installer..that BS. Inevitably it's an un maintainable floor.

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 Post subject: Re: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Floorologist wrote:
Quote:
I'm thinking that the whiting problem with your floor is manufacturer related as well as species related.


Right after installation? Sorry, if it's not coming out of the box that way...good luck with that.

Although some of these handscraped/distressed floors can be a maintenance nightmare. If there's open grain, ( soft grain taken out during the distressing process), how in the world is a consumer suppose to maintain a floor like that, on a day to day basis. What a PITA. I know out here, in Vegas...everyone gets dust in their house no matter what. I don't see how you can keep a floor like that clean. That to me is manufacturer related. But if an installer doesn't vacume the crud out of a floor with that type of distressing,( a broom probably locks dust into the grain)...it's on the installer..that BS. Inevitably it's an un maintainable floor.



Agreed Howard. But there is a way to tell if it is topical or not.

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Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
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 Post subject: Re: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:26 pm 
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floormeintucson wrote:
Agreed Howard. But there is a way to tell if it is topical or not.


Oh, there's a bunch of easy ways. And this one isn't showing on the land areas....

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 Post subject: Re: handscraping turning white
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 10:32 pm 
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Floorologist wrote:
Quote:
I'm thinking that the whiting problem with your floor is manufacturer related as well as species related.


Right after installation? Sorry, if it's not coming out of the box that way...good luck with that.

Although some of these handscraped/distressed floors can be a maintenance nightmare. If there's open grain, ( soft grain taken out during the distressing process), how in the world is a consumer suppose to maintain a floor like that, on a day to day basis. What a PITA. I know out here, in Vegas...everyone gets dust in their house no matter what. I don't see how you can keep a floor like that clean. That to me is manufacturer related. .


So you actually agree with me Howard 8-)

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