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 Post subject: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:13 pm 
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The installer glued our floor down on a new construction (manf joists). The floor was covered to protect it as the final work was done to house. It was not until later after moving in that there was glue all over the floor!

Since it had been awhile mineral spirits wasn' going to remove it. So they came back with Ultrabond Ureathane cleaner which they literally poured on the floor! It did get the glue up, but took me several mops to get the cleaner off the floor.

Later I read the label & it was not to be poured. Yikes. Well now the floor is coming up, mostly in the high traffic areas. To make things worse the finish on the floor (it was pre-finished) is cracking.

So did the cleaner cause my problem? Is there any fixing it? This has been such a nightmare. Thanks in advance for any advice. :D Mary


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 Post subject: Re: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:38 pm 
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Well, certainly the cleaner MAY have been the culprit here, but a great deal more information would be needed to confirm this. Are the areas of the floor coming up in the same location where the cleaner was poured on? Same question for the cracking finish. Please provide an accurate description of this cleaning process, how long before the floor lifting and finish cracking was the cleaning done? What is the humidity in the home? What was the MC of the floor, and sub-floor prior to installation? How long was the floor covered, and with what? Finally, got a camera? Send us some detail pics of the problem areas.
As you can see, it is not really as easy as you might think to answer your question without proper background information. No one here would venture to say it was the cleaner (absolute) without more information.

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 Post subject: Re: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:01 pm 
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Sounds like your GC wasn't on the ball there doing what they are supposed to do....watch and supervise his subs and make sure they do their job correctly!!! :roll: Make him fis it. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:28 pm 
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Yeah the GC did drop the ball so now I'm left trying to fix.

Cleaner was poured over the entire floor not once but twice as there was alot of glue & it was hard to get up. I have noticed some oozing up could be missed stuff but I kinda doubt it.

Floor was covered with paper for a month, fall in GA so weather wasnt too bad. There was acouple "boards" that were "creaking" before this. With the manf Joists that "give" alot its not funny. Not being a big person can shake the floor.

Didn't see the install, so only know the joists w/ plywood flooring. A major newbie mistake sure I'll pay for.

As for the floor "crackling" its basicly that, slight cracks & bowing. I don't see how the installer can fix the problem short of replacing the flooring. UGH not gonna be pleasent. Am I being picky or what this is really driving me crazy as I dont know what should be done?


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 Post subject: Re: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:55 pm 
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1st step...I would tell the folks that installed the floor that the manufacturer needs to take a look at it, and or, send an inspector. If they're not willing to contact the manufacturer, contact them yourself.
I'm not saying it's the manufacturer, but this will get the ball rolling toward whoever needs to take responsibility.

And if it's possible to post pictures for us , that would be helpful. There's quite a bit of knowledge on this Forum. As Dennis said , we need more information.

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 Post subject: Re: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:49 am 
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So they glued this floor to the ply subfloor or underlayment without nailing? Did the GC hire someone that was knowledgeable or licensed....anything or was it his handyman buck a foot buddy?

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 Post subject: Re: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:04 am 
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Sorry puter probs. The installer is a "reputable" business, dealing only with flooring.

I wasn't present during the install, but would guess there aren't any nails as the loose boards flex alot. I don't know the manf, its a tongue groove plywood base with approx 1/8" wood on top.

I'm posting a pic of the "cracking" of the boards.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:05 pm 
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paints200 wrote:
Sorry puter probs. The installer is a "reputable" business, dealing only with flooring.

I wasn't present during the install, but would guess there aren't any nails as the loose boards flex alot. I don't know the manf, its a tongue groove plywood base with approx 1/8" wood on top.

I'm posting a pic of the "cracking" of the boards.
Image



Hmmmmm, the installer is reputable yet the floor is loose. :shock:

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http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


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 Post subject: Re: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 9:45 pm 
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Are the boards actually loose? Or are you feeling what you call "cracking", which looks like the top layer delaminating.

Sure would be interested to know the manufacturer. As the homeowner, you should have been told or know that info. It kinda looks like Schon to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:10 am 
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It could take a bit of chatting with these clever people on this site to sort this one out. One thing I would like to bring up as an opening comment is: if the cleaning solution was literally "poured" on the floor; is it likely that individual boards would exhibit the cracks seen in the photo? Somehow, I think not. The weak point in this type of flooring is not on the surface, but along the edges. So a liquid dumped on the floor would react along these edges first, and would probably affect adjoining boards, rather than isolated single units as shown.
We see this type of fracture most often with very dense exotic woods, and other closed cell woods like maple and hickory. Usually caused by too low humidity compared to conditions at time of install. I have the same problem with one of the floors in my own house that was supplied by a manufacturer for testing purposes. It is one of the South American woods that, based on its poor performance in my home, will not be produced as a flooring product by the manufacturer. The same type of cracking is occuring at my patio door, and below the kitchen sink, so in this case it is repeated moisture, then drying out that has caused it.

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 Post subject: Re: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:50 pm 
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The boards flex when stepped on, then you hear them pull off the subfloor/glue. Some more than others.

Dennis so the crackling could be my fault? The knotty pine you can see imperfections in the finish. Some are cracking/splitting. So what can I do to stop this? Help! New to these types, always had the old school solids. Kinda wish went that way. Live, learn & learn more.

THANKS for everyone's advice. Soon as the "reputable" flooring dealer gets back from vacation will see how this continues.

One the subject of the sides, well they aren't very flush. Very gappy, but was told its flexing. Does a glued floor flex? I'm really getting tired of being treated like I'm being a B. So if I know what's normal it will help me.


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 Post subject: Re: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:07 am 
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paints200 wrote:
One the subject of the sides, well they aren't very flush. Very gappy, but was told its flexing. Does a glued floor flex?


I'm still confused why these guys decided to do a gluedown installation over a plywood subfloor, as opposed to a naildown. Ofcoarse a gluedown over plywood is totally acceptable, if done right, just dont know why they chose that method :? .

Regardless...The planks should not flex or be loose when stepped on. Nor should the floor be "very gappy".
That being said...

The Mapei Ultrabond Urethane Cleaner turns their adhesive into a a slime, to easily clean their urethane adhesive off the finish of the wood. IF you were to take that cleaner and misuse it by pouring it on the floor, it will go inbetween the planks and "slime" the adhesive. Coupled along with the fact that the floor is gapped,with the cleaner puddled in the gaps :roll: , and you saw oozing of the adhesive. I would venture to say this could cause a bonding problem :roll: .

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 Post subject: Re: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:25 am 
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I am concerned over why they would glue over nail? Is it cheaper or easier? Results aren't nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:40 am 
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paints200 wrote:
I am concerned over why they would glue over nail? Is it cheaper or easier? Results aren't nice.


A gluedown installation usually costs more, with the price of adhesive compared to fasteners.
IMO naildown is also an easier installation, it takes less labor, around here naildown costs less. Obviously cleaner. This is why I'm totally confused. A plywood subfloor is a natural for naildown.
Maybe they didnt have the proper gun to nail ( staple ) , an engineered ???

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 Post subject: Re: Glued floor coming loose
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:34 am 
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So it sounds like they are going to have to repair the glued floor, what is the normal procedure? Please forgive my endless questions, just want to educate myself.

Could the fact that the joists were manf & as been told they deflect, give, such.


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