I'm at a loss. I've invested my savings in flooring. I'm broke. The floors are buckling.

I bought the flooring, had it in my home boxed for about 9 months intending to install it myself but just couldn't get the time to do it. It's Pollemier german beech 3/4". The boxes are "climate safe" wax-coated boxes.

My first child was born a 18 months ago, and I just couldn't take myself away from him to do an installation every night and weekend. We decided to hire an installer, and checked 3 references. His work is amazing from what I've seen, and his installation is fantastic (other than this issue).

Anyhow, the installer insisted the wood did not need acclimatization, that the time in the boxes in the house was more than sufficient, and wanted me to leave it boxed until the day of the installation. We did as he requested. The floors were installed over a week, and now it's been about 2-1/2 weeks since the install finished.

There are many places in the floor where I can feel the floor lifting along the majority of a row. You can see it and feel it, and if you bounce on it it pushes down and bottoms out. I place a 30" level on it, and there's a definite peak. I can provide measurements and photos if helpful. This is happening in most rooms in one or more places. He installed it using 2" cleats, bostitch, every 4" to 6". Subfloor is 16" OC joists sheeted with 5/8" OSB, and with an extra sheet of 3/8" fir screwed every 6" in a grid, 4" around perimeter, with 1-1/4" screws, no glue.

My home is climate controlled to 45% RH at all times with humidification and dehumidification. It's been that way the entire 9 months, more or less, that the wood was in the house (in its boxes).

I did open one box the day we received the wood (9 months ago) to use for color samples etc. I figured I should just check the moisture content myself just in case the installer was wrong, so 4 weeks prior to the install, I checked the MC of the wood which was open for 9 months using a digital pin-style meter. I then opened a box that had been sealed the entire time and checked it. The numbers were very similar, +/- 0.5 max across the samples I tested. At the time, I believed this meant that the wood had in fact acclimated through those fancy "climate safe" wax-coated boxes. I don't know if this is correct or not, so tell me if I was out to lunch.

The installer has not yet been paid, as there is outstanding work to complete on the stairs. He says he'll come to look at the issues when he comes to finish the stairs, and says he can fix it.

Guys, I'm looking for some advice about how to proceed. What should I tell the installer? Who's responsible in this situation? How can this be fixed? Do I need to rip it out and start again?? Any thoughts as to why I'm experiencing buckling?

Is it a wide plank beech?

Beech is probably the most unstable hardwood used for flooring in solid format, but maybe you knew that.

Other reasons for the problems could be:

Unseen moisture.
You mentioned no need to acclimate. The hardwood had been stored in the same location of the installation?

It sounds like a real mystery without being there. I'm sure others will offer other ideas.

I'm sure we can get to the bottom of it. The company from my understanding takes care of problems..if there are any that could be their doing. What kind of moisture meter?

Your moisture meter read what number exactly? And your subfloor moisture content was what exactly at time of installation? Temp and rh at time of installation? Whats under your floor, basement or crawl space?

You mentioned a Fir grid. Was that installed 9 months prior? Did someone take that moisture reading?

Thanks for the responses everyone.

I'll answer the questions in one post rather than individually:




It's about 3-1/4" wide. I had heard it's not as stable as others, but nothing alarming based on the opinions I'd gathered. I'll reference this link, where we see beech is more affected by moisture, but not that much more than say oak. Maybe I read it wrong, maybe the difference is significant enough to cause these problems:




Yes, the wood was located in original boxes (no plastic, just the "climate safe" boxes) in each of the rooms it would be installed in.


Delmhorst BD-2100 digital pin-prick, calibrated recently (borrowed from a friend who does home/building inspections, know to be in working order)


Subfloor: 8.8 to about 10, varied with location. Fir plywood, screwed to the subfloor for over 1 year.
Hardwood from box that sat open for 9 months: about 6.5 to 7 max.
Hardwood sampled from a few boxes that remained sealed in the home during the 9 months: about 6.2 to 6.8.

I measured again last night. The subfloor still reads high like that (there are a few places I can access it). The flooring still reads mid to high 6's, some just about 7. I'm testing some unused hardwood scraps that I saved in the home.


The installers had the doors open for quick access to saws etc. Temp went up to 26 C, RH 48 to 50% during the install during the day, returning to 24 C and 45% a few hours after they finished for the day. Temp and RH would yo-yo a little like that due to the doors being open during the day, then closed at night.


The home has a full poured cement basement, no exposed earth crawlspace. That said, it's a split-level home where the lower level sits 40" above the cement pad, and this lower portion is referred to as a crawlspace here in Winnipeg. It seems when people in the US refer to crawlspaces they're thinking of mud floors exposed to the elements, and this isn't the case. Also, the lower level is the least affected by issues. The second story of the home is the most affected.


Yes, it was installed at least 1 year ago. I installed it myself, Fir exterior grade 3/8 ply over the 5/8 OSB, installed perpendicular to joists for strength, 1/8" gap. Screwed every 6" in field, 4" around perimeter, 1-1/4" screws. MC reading was 8.8 to about 10 max, some variation around the home.

Thanks again guys.

if the floor is growing its been introduced to some sort of moisture after it was installed. really odd to have a floor sit in the house that long and have problems. Beech is pretty unstable but if everthing is as you have stated the floor shouldnt have moved that much. Check the readings now and see what the floor is in the worst spots. The floor just didndt make up its mind to move on it own something has made it move. How flat was the floor prior to installing?

[quote="KevinD"]if the floor is growing its been introduced to some sort of moisture after it was installed. really odd to have a floor sit in the house that long and have problems. Beech is pretty unstable but if everthing is as you have stated the floor shouldnt have moved that much. Check the readings now and see what the floor is in the worst spots. The floor just didndt make up its mind to move on it own something has made it move. How flat was the floor prior to installing. although three points doesnt seem like much it may have been all it needed.

Does the crawl space have perimeter venting, and cross ventilation? Any vapor barrier between the crawl space and subfloor/grid? Kinda wondering about RH in crawlspace. And if vapor barrier...what type and where is it placed.

The crawlspace is ventilated, multiple exhaust vents from forced-air furnace, with open vents into a large open room with multiple intakes. It should be quite nicely ventilated, I'd be happy to check RH.

The interesting thing is that the floor above the crawlspace is much less affected than that of the second floor. I'll get some pics posted - I'm no pro, maybe I'm making mountains out of molehills..

The subfloor was pretty flat, I personally didn't check it, they did as they went during the install. I seem to remember them fixing little issues here and there, and one large area needed 1/4" taken off with a planer and sander.

I'll borrow the meter again and will test the most affected areas.

Something seem screwy with your numbers there.

Is it the subfloor being that high, while the flooring is so low after 9 months in the open air?

I too am very confused by that. I called Delmhorst, they suggested it could be due to species differences, and offered a conversion table. The funny thing is the fir and beech shared the same conversion factor, meaning they should have read the same. I don't know what to think about that.

The interesting thing is the meter consistently reads these numbers - I can go back and forth between the hardwood and fir subfloor, and it consistently is a lot higher, even though same room, both over 9 months in the home. I consistently read the same numbers for the hardwood, and same numbers for the subfloor.

Here's my logic, tell me if you think I'm nuts:
- the meter consistently reads approx the same within one wood species (ie hardwood always reading about the same, +/- a bit like 0.5 max)
- since it's consistent for that species, and I measured hardwood that was exposed (open box) for 9 months and hardwood that was boxed for 9 months, and they were almost the same (again +/- 0.5 absolute tops), I assume I can safely say it was acclimated.

I don't have any idea how to explain the difference in reading between subfloor and hardwood. It's really strange. Could it be due to adhesive in the plywood? I imagine the pins sink into the adhesive layer.

I have an idea - Instead of borrowing the same meter, I'll ask him for another one just to be extra sure. He says he and his team have many. I'll test again and post results as soon as I have it. In the mean time, I'll take some pics.

I'm no expert, and this buckling may be easy to fix. It's not what I'd call "severe", but I'm a bit of a perfectionist and it's enough I -easily- see it.

Can you access the subfloor from the basement? Get some readings of the subfloor and beams from down there.

Another thing is that those scraps will not read the same as the flooring thats attached to the subfloor if there is some moisture issue coming from the subfloor area.

To really get at the meat of the problem you need to do some destructive work here. Tear out the buckled part and you will find you answer. Anything else is just guess work.

It used to drive me nuts doing inspections and not be allowed to do destructive analysis. I call it voodoo inspections.

I'm lucky - I still have access to portions of both the underside of the subfloor on all levels. I'll test once I have that meter again and will report back.

One more thing. We might be looking at the wrong issue here. Might also be skip nailing or lack of enough fasteners.