The home is 10 years old and I purchased it 7 years ago. The floor is original from the initial build.

The insurance company called in a specialist in water damage to assess the floor, and he is the one that said this damage was caused by the hurricanes.

Does anyone know of a building inspector in the Tampa area?

He would have no grounds to sue on IF he had full knowledge prior to buying this home. I am sure he had access to the homeowners association's declaration and easment provisions prior to purchasing this home. Also, IF this is a accepted design in his location and received approval from the building dept. then again he has no grounds to sue on. His only recourse is to try to get his insurance to pay for the repair/replacement IF he has storm damage coverage. If this design is used all over the Tampa area, this would sure keep the restoration and dry rot repair contractors busy and happy.

Insurance will not cover as this is not a named peril in my HO-6 homeowner's policy. Hurricane insurance will not cover because the damage was not from wind driven rain. Flood insurance will not cover because the water that was in the resevoir never touched the bottom of the floor.

Having been inspecting in Tampa for about 1.5 years, I would guess this home is in a low lying area of converted swamp. The choices in building are: place soil to raise the ground or build a home off the ground that is high enough to avoid flooding during the rainy season. It is cheaper to build the home off the ground as we have in this situation.
Has anybody suggested this man wait and see what happens after the home/sub-floor/soil dries? The cupping may diminish or improve greatly.
I suspect the floor was not properly installed to begin with; meaning moisture barriers not placed to protect the wood floor "under the home" moisture.
I think I would dry out the house then see if the cupping would diminish enough to sand flat.
Ray Darrah

Ray,

How long would I typically need to wait for the cupping to reduce? It has been four months with very little rain. My concern is that even if I sand and refinish the floor this might happen again.

In my situation, what would your company do for me, and what would the cost be to inspect the floor and deterime a cause for failure (that part of your web site isn't up and running yet).

Please shoot me an email at Serbonze@aol.com if you would like to talk privately. Thanks!

- Jeff

To inspect for cause of failure is what we do for a living.
We are not able to see the future, but we are able to inspect and make suggestions concerning your particular situation.
How long before the cupping would subside? Who knows? Performing moisture tests to find the current moisture content and measuring board widths would help in determining if the floor should be removed, sanded or replaced. Placing Plastic on the underside of the joists would help greatly, in my opinion...... then wait. I would guess that the flooring has a moisture source resulting in no reduction of moisture content. One must first remove the moisture source, then make decisions. Without removing the moisture source all other efforts would be useless and costly as the flooring would only fail again. Engineered products shring and expand in length while solids shrink and expand in width... so either way; if the moisture source is still there; a failure will occur again.

Thank you for the comment concerning the site.. We need to update the site.

Ray

Uh yes Ray. How ya doin?

I'll double post this reply in this topic and my other topic.

I went to the retailer today and he didn't have the Award flooring to be able to look at. From what he had there (Bruce, Robbins, Mirage, Columbia, Forest Hills and some others that I can't remember) the suggestion was to go with the Robbins. This is based upon the timeframe that I plan on being in the house (5 years or less).

His suggested installation method:

- Rip up the old floor 3/4" solid hardwood
- Check moisture level of existing sub floor
- Lay down a new plywood sub-floor (thickness of plywood depending on how much space is needed)
- Lay down a layer of tarpaper
- Staple the new Robbins floor over the tarpaper and sub-floor

Does this sound correct for my situation?

As an installer, and I arrived at the job, and see what I see, just in your pictures. No matter what the salesman said, I would refuse to install the job, or get a signed liability waiver from who ever was writing my check, and as a subcontractor, make the homeowner fully aware of the problem inherent in installing that floor... As you have found out the hard way.

My reputation as a installation contractor, is to have full control over the job. Not what some commisioned salesman is telling me to do.
Now if I was an employee, I would keep my mouth shut and install it.

Hrmm..well that obviously doesn't sound good.

When I have the engineer come by and we can add more ventilation to the space, would the above scenario work?

I'm not trying to be overly ignorant here of the problem, I'm just trying to find the best solution to my problem.

I've had a number of different recommendations, and I certainly understand that everyone will or could have a different opinion. The overwhelming majority are saying to fix the problem, and believe me I want to and will have that done by a proffessional.

I guess really what I'm hoping to get is the proffessional opinion on how a new floor should be installed once the moisture problem from underneath is corrected.

I've read what seems to be conflicting information in a few different posts on various parts of the forum.

Specifically I'm looking for the following information:

What type of moisture barrier should be used under the new subfloor? I've read tarpaper and a plastic, but in one thread I read that the plastic actually caused the floor underneath to rot.

What is the proper method for installing a new sub-floor - new plywood over my existing plywood to make up for the difference in height between my current 3/4 inch flooring and the new engineered? Does the tarpaper over the new subfloor sound like the right way to go?

If some of these questions are redundent, I apologize. I'm just trying to get everything down so I know the proper questions to ask and what type of answeres I should get from the installer.

Thanks again for your time in helping with this matter.

Do your best to limit the amount of water standing in the moat that lies beneath your home, install a plastic moisture barrier then a decent pad/underlayment and go with a single strip floating floor..as a hardwood contractor I would not be real comfortable with any other method..

your not going to get a 100% guarantee that this will never happen again with any method of installation. In my opinion this is your safest bet..

I also work in Tampa.

Serbonze,
I think you fail to understand the science and mechanics at work regarding your home and flooring problem. Let me try to shed some light. Anyone viewing this post may refute what I say but please use scientific facts and known mechanics.
1) Wood and water don't mix. Peroid! Trying to ignore the fact that you live over a swiming pool will not make it go away. Either remove the swiming pool OR go with a floor system that will give you the greatest odds of sucess.
2) Adding more plywood or anything else is NOT the answer. You are being sold this flawed idea from people whom wish to part you from your wallet.
3) The ONLY floor system that has a chance under the present circumstances is a floating floor that can be 100% isolated from the moisture under your house. As a side, I installed a Harris-Tarkett Longstrip floor 8 yrs. ago over a home that was built over a spring. It had standing water in the crawl space year round. I cautioned the owners to employ a drainage contractor to install a drainage system. But they wanted a floor NOW. After laying down 6 mil poly and 2 in 1 Volara foam, I installed the longstrip floor. That floor has had ZERO problems in 8 yrs. I only hope the owners had their crawl space drainage improved.
4) Your joists and plywood subfloor will rot out in time whether or not you replace this floor with another. Any framing member that is not pressure treated and is subjected to constant moisture will develope dry rot. If the MC content is above 20%, mold and fungus will grow, creating rot and health concerns. You need to get the moisture away from your framing.
5) In your case, an on-grade vapor barrier is of little value because as soon as your "cistern" fills with water, it will float around and the water will sit on top of it. The poly vapor barrier should be stapled to the bottom of the floor joists only after they have COMPLETELY dried out. No more than 14% MC!
6) Using an engineered wood floor is a good idea but not a fixall. It will fail if subjected to enough moisture. Standing water under your house is enough to cause the floor to fail. No contractor or manufacterer will warranty this install. Period!
Bottom line: I have nothing to gain and nothing to lose by giving you this advice. I do have 25 yrs. in the industry and have pretty much seen it all (well, except for the wacky design of the developement you live in). If I lived in Tampa, I have no doubt I could solve your drainage and flooring problems. But since I don't, I can only tell you what I would do; and that I have done. Good Luck!

Gary and Sean,

Thank you, that is really the information that I was looking for.

Gary - trust me, I'm not ignoring the situation that I have. I'm doing my best with the knowledge that I'm gaining to understand and fix the problem. Up until yours and Sean's posts, no one gave a difinitive answer on what type of floor to use! Now I know to start looking at floating floors and I can forget what the salesman is trying to sell me.

I've contacted Ray last night to see if he could come by the house and check out my situation, and offer alternatives and suggestions for fixing the problems. If he can't help, I'm hoping that he can suggest an engineer in the area that can look at the problem and offer alternative solutions.

Thanks again guys!

- Jeff

Since you work in Tampa can you shoot me an email?

Serbonze@aol.com

Thanks!

- Jeff

Serbonze,
Having systems inplace to catch rain water is not uncommon, the problem is in how yours was done. I live in a place where collecting rain water is a necessity for some, but the professional systems aren't like yours. Occasionally we'll come accross someone who has an old cistern without a lid (and that is bad enough), but what you have is a lawsuit. That design is completely absurd.

Do yourself a favor and don't do anything with your floors until the pond is delt with.