I ordered mine from Harbor Freight for $129. Plus the $20 for insurance if I have a problem the 1st year. Seems to be a very good buy as long as the nailer works. I am doing my first room this weekend. I will let you know how it goes.

Believe it or not the stapples hold way better than the old cleats. there double side with an adhesive coating the heat and sets as there being driven in. Peronally i use Bostich, but there are other companies out that are just as good.

How does one set the depth on a MIII nailer, just compressor pressure, or is there a further setting one can do? I do not have a manual for m ine, just the gun....


Cheers,

"talk to any Bostitch rep; they will tell you the same thing; staples hold much better than cleats."
What did you expect the rep to tell you? Here is a fact(cleat nails allow the floor to expand and contract better than staples,staples also have a problem coming up through the face of the floor when you hit a nail in the sub floor. Most guys use staples not because their better, but because their cheaper...Lets get the facts straight

I said Bostitch sells both a cleat nailer and the stapler. They could care less which one buys. So, Bostitch did say staples hold better and there is definitive proof. I also said, sometimes, one does NOT want that. I said cleats will allow the floors to expand whereas staples do not so quite as well. I have used both since 1978. I do not care about the cost. It is minimal. In my geographic location, staples are preferred over cleats because of the widespread use of OSB subfloors and our mild seasons. We do not experience dramatic swings in temps or humidity, which should be controlled in the interior of the building at any rate. If a building is climate controlled year round, as it should be, there is little need for a fastener to allow the wood to "expand and contract". I have stated time and again on this forum, it is up to the installer's preference. Either fastener will work fine and is acceptable and recommended by NOFMA and the NWFA.

So, you have presented no new information or facts. Just more installer bias that we have all heard many, many times before. If you have any new and empirical data, please feel free to post it. We already have plenty of "opinions."

99% of the time, I trust the Bostich stapler. I started with the manual power nailer and am positive the the 2 inch staples hold better and will resist natural floor movement better than cleats. To be sure I stapled a few boards into a plywood test floor and also power nailed a few boards. The stapled boards were harder to pry out of the ply wood.

The argument that cleats allow for more floor movement before the floor cups isn't a very good one. I've seen and worked on cupped floors and most of them had been installed with power nailers / cleats. If there is enough moisture or a water problem, the floor will cup anyway.so it's a moot point. For example, should you install plain sawn maple in a home that is on the ocean, the flooring is going to take off and it wont matter if you used cleats of not.

For anyone that doesn't want their flooring to squeak, the answer is flooring adhesive . I regularly see a plank floor (random 3-5-7 inch red oak ) and it's still as tight as the day I installed it. If you ever glue a floor, then you can use cleats or staples because they don't matter once the glue sets up which only takes about 1 or 2 days.

One other thing.Many guys don't like staplers because they do not maintain or know how to maintain their air tools. Maintain your compressor and stapler and they will perform nearly flawlessly. My bostich stapler has not jammed in the 3 years that I have had it and i have never split a tongue while using it.

I don't think this debate will ever conclusively decide which is the better fastener. Certainly the test you did would indicate better holding power from your staple. BUT that is only in the case of inittial holding power. In an area of large humidity swings from season to season (Toronto for instance) I suggest you try the same test several years after installation. Now, I know your gonna say well, ya gotta maintain static humidity conditions, but in all practicality, this is only possible in lab conditions, not the real world.
Speaking only for myself, and the company I represent; cleats are the way to go. And having preached this to our contractor clients, most installers that have actually "heard" my preaching have switched to cleats, including several other large companies in our market area.
Anyway, if staples work for you; great.

I really like my porter cable cleat nailer. I also own a few bostich nailers, the staples are much cheaper to buy.

Couldn't help but weighing in on the nails vs. staples vs. cleats debate. I have used staples and nails on plywood and OSB and in MOST cases I have not noticed a difference; however, I am swayed by the hold argument for staples. You get two independent grip points for each fastener installed, and the staple bridge holds tight over a tongue. Staples DO tend to split tongues more often than nails will, but even when split the grip is still really strong.

Go for a 15 gauge stapler (avoid 16 gauge). I use a DuoFast 200-S, but have also rented the Bostitch stapler described above to install oak. I've had no trouble with either of them and the DuoFast is a hair cheaper, but the Bostitch comes with the industry leading warranty (7 years).

No matter which you choose, OIL the dang thing. Fail to oil it and the whole thing can seize up.

edited by admin: read the rules

Hey Guys:

I grew up in Florida. Over the years, I started a home remodeling and repairs business that eventually led to home inspections and contracting.

Over the years I have accumulated a great deal of power tools and somewhere along the line, I acquired a nailer I'd never seen before.
It has the Bostitch logo on the side of it and the designation, "Model M111" on the handle. It fired case hardened, steel T-Nails which in Florida, I used to nail all manor of things to concrete block walls.

Fade to black.
Fade to scene, January 2007.

The great Busch era is winding down and the financial market is in shambles. My remodeling business has dried up completely and I have moved to North Carolina where I have taken up Commercial Construction Estimating and bought an old, 1915 home with hardwood floors (and no subfloor system).

Today, I have 256 sqft of new red oak to put down and I'm looking for a nailer and upon the suggestion of a worker at Lowes, I pull out the Model M111 and on the Lowes shelf, I find a box of Bostitch, flooring, cleat nail that fits it.

QUESTION:

This nailer is a vertical nailer. There is no curved handle bolted to it and no "boot" attached to the nose.
Is this a floor nailer?

Sounds to me like it is indeed a surface nailer used for starting rows and finishing rows. The gun itself is all the same mechanisn as an actual flooring nailer, without the base plate to allow for 45 degree nailing and the handle to make the unit easy to use for tongue nailing.

the M111 was originally designed as a concrete nailer . Then someone attached a foot and a handle and called it a flooring nailer. If you have one of the older models they still have a trigger on them they dropped the trigger later on because all it did was give the nailer a spot to loose air around the tiny little trigger popit. So without the foot its going to be q challenge, the handle notso much but I dont see how to get around the shoe.

Just go with the 45 Powernailer. In my opinion is the best option for you.

Wow what a thread, I just read through the whole thing! Very informative! Now I have to weight renting the air nailer from Home Depot or buying the harbor freight one (I only have approx 81 sq feet to do, then another 100 sq ft or so in the future).

Anyway from what I gathered for my installation I might be better off with cleats. First I'm weaving into an existing 55 year old floor that was held in by cleats already. The floor is in great shape save for some scuffs. I don't see any evidence of buckling or cupping or warping. I'll have the floors all refinished once this project is over so the new part will (hopefully) match. My house uses diagonal 1x6 planks- before the days of OSB etc, and I live in the mid-atlantic, so we have dry, cold winters and hot humid summers.

Any other advice?

Great Thread