My stapler came with a ½" shoe and a ¾" shoe. Shim the ½" shoe with felt paper, or thin cardboard.

Over 6,000 page views! Popular topic for sure.

I'm doing some repairs replacing some areas of 2-1/4 white oak before hiring a refinisher. The existing floor is cleated (40 yrs. old) on a 1/2" plywood subfloor. Compelling cases here for staples, but should I do my repairs w/staples or keep it consistent with cleats? Or is it irrelevant for my situation?

Thanks.

Irrelevant.

If your old flooring had cleats and your piecing in for a repair, it is recommended to use cleats for the repair. It is not recommended to mix cleats and staples in the same installation area.

OK Gentlemen,
Another newbie here, diy'r and I've read these posts with great interest...learned quite a bit so far...but have not seen Porta-Nailer mentioned. Did some research (hopefully enough) before buying a manual #402 as I have about 2100 s.f. of wood ahead of me after 3-1/2 years of building my home at nite.

Is it a fairly good nailer for 3/4" solid hardwood (Mirage Walnut, Ash and RedOak) ? Any comments, good or bad about the Mirage flooring?

[Loved the other posts about LL and their shenigans that I also allowed myself to experience one time in one of their retail stores at which point I deemed them a non-entity]

I opted for the manual unit as after 3-1/2 years, the only pneumatic nailer I've allowed myself to buy was a Sensco Palm Nailer for the hurricane straps. Guess I'm just a glutten for punishment , or so it seems by reading the above posts, but sore muscles aside, any other concerns? Will I be able to hoist that 12oz cylinder after a Saturday or Sunday of nailing..or will i need a straw?

I am planning on using their sawtooth nails as opposed to staples.

Going down onto 3/4" plywood subfloor.

One other similar question...felt paper vs. rosin paper...pros/cons of each possibly?

Saw a post about wood to tile transition in another topic. If anyone reading this would like to discuss further, i'd be interested as my kitchen design is (2) 3-1/4" walnut boards bordering 3' squares of 12" tile over 1/4" hardibacker with Schulter (sp?) expansion stips between the tile and wood. The design repeats every 3' laid in at a 45° angle to the 2x8 joists.

The kitchen has under the subfloor radiant heat tubing installed with radiator metal strips. House is to be heated by hot air and I haven't given it much thought but will probably install a whole-house humidifer before the next heating season. Guess I already mentioned my glutteny for punsishment. But after 3-1/2 years, is there a rush?

Anyways, appreciate any installers feedback for background info. BTW am in NY where R.H. varies from January 10% to August 95% +. Thanks guys....

Probably should start a new thread on that kitchen deal, alot of people won't see it buried in here.

I will tell you main reason I switched over to a pneumatic nailer several years ago. Nail pops.

Seemed like every job I did that was on a 2nd floor or the 1st floor with a finished basement ceiling, I was having to go back and repair nail pops in plaster ceilings

I haven't had any problems with that since I made the switch.

2100 sf is a big job, that manual nailer hopefully has improved over the years. The last one I used was a buddy of mine needed some help so I go out there to help him and he hands me one of those I used it for about 30 minutes hopped in the truck and headed home to get my compressor and the pnumatic, trust me it's not worth it unless you are trying to build up one arm and one shoulder for the next flooring olympics. ON felt vs rosin I always go with felt, either one will work in most cases.

In terms of sheer holding power, I can only agree with everyone whose already posted. Having demo'd several of both; staple-down floors are more work! I have considered obtaining a manual nailer as a temporary back-up or for use in very small jobs(landings, plant ledges, etc.), but I rely on my Bostich stapler for its efficiency in both my time and energy.
I have found cleats usefull with installing bamboo floors. I stapled my first bamboo floor and after the room was done, I could look across the floor and by the humps along the edge could tell where every staple was.
I haven't tried it yet, but I also suspect cleats would be advantageous with brazilian cherry or other extremely hard and brittle woods. Staples as often as not split the tongue, defeating the purpose.

Some have commented on local conditions making cleats more advantageous or at least more functional. Could someone explain more fully?

The thinking is: in areas where there is more seasonal or high humidity, like the gulf states, the solid wood floors will expand more at times of high humidity. Since cleats will allow the floor to move more (they don't hold as well), this allows the flooring to expand without compression set or cupping due to higher humidity. I cannot say from personal experience whether this theory is true or not but it is taught by the NWFA. Or at least it was.

It has been know to be a problem, but the solution for staples in these parts is to drop a few our of the set schedule if it calls for 1 every 10” then you install 1 every 12” works out pretty well and you still get the holding power of staples. We use only staples, we have never had a problem and we would not consider going back.

On the issue of felt or rosin paper... There is one huge difference between 15 lb felt and the kraft paper I use. I use Fortifiber Aquabar B a 30-30 kraft paper. It has a perm rating of less then 1. 15 lb felt has a perm rating of 3-7. Could moisture be an issue in your install?? I like the gasket like qualities of felt on an OSB subfloor, but I still use Aquabar B under it.

Hi everyone, great discussion. I couldn't help through in my 2-cents-worth. I live in a sub-tropical part of the East Coast of Australia. I've just completely replaced an old Hoop Pine (araucaria) floor in a 100-year old "Queenslander" house with T&G Spotted Gum boards. We used a PorterCable pneumatic cleater because we didn't think that staples would actually be able to penetrate the super-hard Australian hardwood flooring joists to which the floor was nailed because they would just bend like the little wires that they are. Conversely, the cleats went in nice and deep, and their barbs hold them in pretty well. Now, that's not to say that there was not a LOT of creaking for the first couple of weeks after install, but we had a run of very high temperature and high humidity days, and the "creaking" seemed to be independent of cleat location - so it was rather an artefact of the tongues and grooves - and only present on extremely humid and hot days. It is completely absent any other time.

Having said that, I've not run into a tounge-in-groove floor nailed to joists (young or old) that does not creak. It's not the same as nailing to subloors and in our climate, where we have lots of timber houses on posts high off the ground to let the breeze circulate under the floor, it's unlikely that we will ever have a creak-free floor. Different mindset - we actually think it adds character!

Cheers,

Hey, our Aussie brother,

Glad to have you aboard! And thanks for your insight into some of the way things are done down under. I know what you mean by creaking. I owned a house built in the 1920's that had T&G fir floors nailed directly to the the joists. I don't think they were intended to be the finished floors but just subfloors. But I sanded and refinished them anyway and they looked great. I even faced nailed into the joists to help stiffen them up and reduce that creaking. But even with that, they still creaked! I guess that's why over here, they no longer use t&g solid subfloor boards.