SPeters,that sounds right to me. Sure you didn't crossthread it?

DC I don't know of any independent tests to which one could refer. Powernail actuall claims cleats hold better. No suprise there.

Tell the guy to call me. hoho I have used both extensively.

There are valid reasons for using cleats instead of staples. Holding power is not among them.

So what are your reasons for prefering staples over cleats Chuck? Do the staples ever squeak? How about top nailing what do you use for that?
Another Q. Do you guys use splines when turning your floor around? We just glue the backs togather and top nail both sides.
Have a great day,
Jesse

??????????

Jesse,I use splines. I don't topnail out in the field. I don't put glue out in the field either. Bad ideas,both.

I have been told that cleats will allow a floor to move without buckling. Most of the stuff I install is going over advantec or regular OSB. Cleats are not a wise choice over those substrates,in my opinion.

Staples have about twice the holding power of cleats. Anyone who has torn out installs secured with both would back me up on that. Hell, I can kick a cleat nailed board off of osb with my tennie shoe.

I use a Porter-Cable DA-250 for shooting nails. It has a big head,but it shoots an actual nail. Most other trim guns(Paslode,Bostich) shoot a little piece of wire.

As to why I use staples, I use them because I have staplers. hoho Staples are also cheaper than cleats. I have an old 45,but it is just gathering dust.


CHU

Since Bostitch makes nailers that use both cleats and staples, they do not care which you buy, as long as you buy their stuff. They will tell you staples hold better than cleats. Also, as Chuck mentioned, if you have ever demoed a wood floor nailed down with either, you'll find that staples stay in the subfloor and cleats come out with the flooring. What does that tell you? That old timer was just stuck in his ways, as some people get. I've meet guys who told me they learned sanding from their Dad over 25 yrs. ago and do it the same today: same finish, same tools, same technique. Just stubborn, stupid or lazy. Aren't interested in keeping up with newer improvements. Sometimes, there are timeless ways of doing things but to be close minded is to be foolish, IMO. With the newer subfloor types, staples hold best; but as Chuck said, sometimes, you DON"T want that.

Yep, we have ripped out floors that were put down with cleats and that is one reason we feel more confident about using staples.

It tells me that if we have to rip up flooring, that we hope the other guy used cleats! No crawling around plucking staples.

I pulled up a floor today nailed with staples into PARTICLE BOARD underlayment! The previous installers were either too lazy OR the homeowner didn't want to pay to have the p.board removed. But guess what, as I was ripping out the flooring, the staples held in the p. board and the oak boards were breaking into little bits. None of the staples released from the p. board easily. I had to pry them out with my pliers. This is a testamony to the holding power of staples over cleats. With cleats, the demo would have gone much easier.

I have 1/2" particle board underlayment over the plywood subfloor all through our house (circa 1976). And I thought I was going to have to tear it up before putting down hardwood because the staples might not grab. Any reason not to stay on the happy assumption that I can skip the demolition?

Nofma and the NWFA recommend that you DO NOT install over particle board. Just because the staples held fast on this one job doesn't mean they always will. Furthermore, the floor I demoed was squeeking badly cause the p. board had come loose. You should remove the p. board before installing the new floor UNLESS it is a floating floor or a glue down. Then you MAY leave it; not ideal but OK.

hmmm...I recall a study done on staple/cleats that said staples hold better in the short term but with time and moisture cycles, the good quality cleats(there is a difference!) held better. Had to do with the fact that part of the staples holding power was the glue and as the wood expanded/contracted, it would lose contact with the shank. The cleat with ribs wouldn't back out as easily.

I have no source for that study any more, and it was only for plywood. I happen to use cleats in a modified Bostich with a Primatech conversion kit and use only Powercleats. I know they have held down floors for decades. Good enough.

Each to their own; they are both good and acceptable. All I can say is, I've torn out OLD floors nailed down with cleats. The cleats came out pretty easily. And I've torn out floors nailed down with staples; those were much harder to remove and the flooring usually busted up. I don't need a study to define my personal experience of 25 years.

Particleboard bad, 3/4 CDX plywood good. The guy that built my house was named Larry Cutcorners. Larry would cut every corner he could to save time and money. Larry used particleboard as underlayment, and secured it with framing nails. Not ringshanks, mind you. Larry glued tile directly to particleboard in the bathrooms, but he didn't use thinset. Larry installed exterior doors with no headers. I spent a ton of time and money ripping that cr@p out and replacing it with CDX. Before the job, the house squeaked like pack of rats. Now, she's eerily quiet. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.

all depends really, In a perfect world where there are not drastic changes in temp and humidity inside the home and the floor was acclamated properly to the jobsite either is a safe bet. In our area i sell cleats 10 to 1 over staples. We have stubborn builders who dont understand how climate control is key to preformance. Big swings in temp and rh means lots of movement. This is where i see cleats beinging an advantage over staples. A stapler in the hands of someone who thinks the more staples the better can get you into some trouble in our particular local. each is own! what works for some might not work for others, it's more than just holding power.

I was looking at the Bostitch stapler for my 5/8" bamboo flooring and I noticed it says in the description it is for 1/2" and 3/4" flooring. Does anyone know if there is an easy way to adapt it to 5/8" flooring? Do they have an accessory shoe available? I read here that other people have used it for 5/8" so obviously it can be done.
Thanks