I live in the Dallas area and have arrived at this site hoping to get some ideas about what is wrong with my floor.

I bought a foreclosed home about 3 years ago. The house is 13 years old and was in really good shape, the pepole who lost it werent like most as they didnt trash the place.

There was an indication that a "flooding event" had occurred at some time in the past as there were water stained floor cabinet kick plates at a few downstairs locations, at a wetbar, a bookcase and the other side of the bookcase wall where the main bathroom is.

I wanted to replace most all of the flooring downstairs but decided to wait to see if there were any water leaks in the house. After six months nothing had shown itself so I contracted to have about 1300 sf. of 4" red oak put down. I found the contractor through a friend who had his floor done similar to mine, it is a good looking floor.

I told the contractor about the water concerns and after testing the concrete slab he assured me that although the moisture content in the concrete was at the high side of normal, it was fine.

The day came to install and he showed up with a large crew and a truckload of sheathing and bundles of 4" red oak. The process involved putting down heavy mil plastic, felt, then the 4x8 sheets of plywood with 20 nails per sheet nailed into my concrete slab. Then more felt over the sheathing and the hardwood nailed perpendicular to the sheathing.

He allowed the flooring to acclimate for a couple of weeks before finishing. We decided on a dark mahogany stain with the floor sanded smooth (no distress or hand scraping).

I started to become concerned for a couple of reasons. He said that he had a hard time finding the wood for the floor, he said it was the last vendor he could think of that had the wood. Having been in the trades some years ago myself I know it's best to get your supplies from a place that has proved reliable over time. Well at any rate after the 2 weeks or so he came by to look at the floor and he remarked that the gaps he had left in the flooring for the purpose of giving the floor room to expand hadnt closed up. He actually stood there and said "huh!" and said not to worry that he'd "work his magic". well his magic consisted of filling the gaps with filler.

After two months I noticed cupping near my fireplace and gave him a call. He refinished the area. I was concerned about water maybe getting in at my chimney because there was no chimney cap so I put one on. After that everything seemed to be fine for the most part. There was some movement but nothing too drastic.

That is until this winter. The flooring in an area near where it cupped before is now cupping.

I had a chimney company come out to custom fit a cap and the old timer that is doing the work said that he doubted that the floor was cupping from any moisture from the chimney. The house is a 2 story and he said it was doubtful that water was traveling all the way down to the floor. I checked the flue myself and the underside of the roof where the chimney penetrates and there is no moisture whatsoever. As a matter of fact I've yet to see any evidence of water intrusion at all and believe me I've been looking.

I had a fresh water plumbing test done and all is fine there, no leaks. My yard grading is fine, no standing water.

I have yet to do a waste line plumbing check though. It seems there are some variations in how to do a drain line plumbing check. Some web sites indicate that all plumbing must be blocked, that toilets must be removed from their mounts and blocked and that sinks and tubs have to be stopped up. But others indicate a simpler process. I'm kinda flummoxed about how to proceed on that issue.

I monitor the humidity in the house and as you might expect it's kinda low in the winter what with all the central heater use, but it doesnt seem to me to be an issue because we've had the floor in for a few winters now and surely it would have displayed a problem sooner. At any rate the humidity runs between 20 - 30%

I noticed significant movement and swelling during a major cold snap where it actually snowed a day or two. Dont know if the cold is problematic or the snow, or neither.

I'm really sick of dealing with this. I wish I knew how to proceed.

Here's a picture. I apologize for the quality, do ya know how hard it is to get a decent picture of this!?

Yikes is right. One possibility is that, yes it is dry and dry on top and moist underneath makes for cupping. But geez, why do people think it's a great idea to puncture the vapor retarder (6mil) with thousands of holes is beyond me.

Thanks for the reply. How else is it done? I mean you've got to transition from concrete to wood planking so a substrate is necessary but how else to go about it? Glue it down? Is there a sealer that could be put down to seal the concrete instead of/ in addition to the plastic?

There's lots of ways to do it besides that way. Heard guys say thats how they always do it and it never fails. Then heard of lots of them failing. Yes, you can do MVP4 or roofing mastic and then even plastic over that and nail it down or just float the plywood but it must be cut up because it tends to curl.

You need somone who can test the wood and ply for moisture. As in a gradient test.

Excessive moisture. It needs torn out.

whoa dont go riping anything out until you figure out whats really going on. a lot of people even wood floor contractors have trouble understanding what is going on. You need some good meter readings from top to bottom to see whats going on. Floor cups because there is too large of a diffrence in m/c from the top to the bottom of the piece. Its likely that the subfloor could be reading averge numbers that are in range of the desired emc. BUt the flooring itself on the other hand could be bone azz dry especially on the top side of the board. If you have more than 3 points from top to bottom on a 4" plank cupping will happen to some degree. So introducing some humidty in the room and bringing the planks into a more balanced m/c should help if that is the problem. A r.h. of 45% is what you are shooting for. You cant tell anything without a good meter and the know how to decipher it all.

Thanks for the posts.

I'm certainly not prepared to rip it all out at this point. I have been dealing with this for two years now and the wife thinks I'm obsessed but really I just want it to look like it's supposed to. Nobody seems to know how to proceed.

I'm thinking along the lines of Kevin that I need to provide some humidity to the area and am presently exploring humidifier options (thats a whole new kettle of fish) but it's a fairly cavernous area and I am not sure how much good I could do with the mickey mouse humidifiers I'm finding.

Pretty much the entire floor that I had installed is cupping to some degree. The installer cautioned us about the board width telling us that the wider the board the more you are inviting cupping. I had no experience at the time with wood floors so I really couldnt appreciate what he was talking about. Having been warned and having decided to go with the wider planking what cupping has occured throughout the house I can live with, I mean I dont want to be unreasonable, but this particular area is clearly much worse than anywhere else.

to add insult to injury I dont know that the guy is still in business and that might explain a lot but he really did some good work and a lot of it. Before I settled on this particular installer I visited several of his job sites, both finished and in progress not to mention my friends experience with the guy and everyhting looked good. I just shot him an email and hopefully we can work this out but until then keep the thoughts a commin and wish me luck.

You need some meter readings to really know for sure. Is this the coldest winter you have had so far? A stand alone whole house humidifier that has a capacity to handle the entire house is what you are looking for, there is recent thread on here showing some at home depot for about 100.00 bucks that seem to be getting the job done. Its odd to get cupping from moisture during the middle of winter from too high of moisture from below, more often in late winter its a lack of moisture from above. every floor and every house and every lifestyle is different and they all have a part.

I dont know that this is the coldest winter since the floor was put down but maybe the driest. It has been really dry this winter. I have a humidity meter that shows daily high and low readings and it runs between 20-30% humidity. I'll have to check the threads here about a good humidifier.

Thanks for taking the time to reply

Well I've contacted the installer and hope to get him by soon.

Is there any professional that visits this board that works in the Dallas area that could come and look at this floor and give me an independent opinion as to what is going on and how to fix it?

call southern wood flooring supply in Dallas and ask them for some locals that they could recommend. There also is a contributor here thats from Dallas look under the article contribution tab for more info on him.

Perry is in Austin http://www.austinfloorguy.com/

Then theres this article some guy wrote about portable humidifiers on Kens other site. The humidifier shown in the picture on that article can be bought at HD and covers a 2000sf area or so. You may need two if the house is close to 2000sf. It does shut off all by itself when you hit the zone you set it to.

http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwo ... cation.htm

Thanks Kevin and Stephen. I called Southern Wood Flooring and they gave me the number of a reputable company that I have scheduled to come by next week and evaluate what is going on.

Thanks Stephen for the humidifier info., I've been too busy to get out and look so this is very helpful in the research department.

Thanks, I'll keep ya posted

Did the installer use pressure treated plywood? is this a below grade installation?

kenpawlik,

No way of knowing about the plywood. I didn't know to ask about the plywood or really anything else. I have certainly developed a fairly thorough understanding of proper materials and techniques over the last couple of years though. I have a leak detection company coming out next week to be sure I have no plumbing issues. I also have a flooring company coming to offer an opinion about what is going on.

I'm really at a loss for what is going on. With every visit from another professional (chimney, roofing, plumbing...etc. etc.) I have one more opinion of what is causing it. Maybe more accurately, with each visit I have one more guess, because every avenue I investigate turns up empty.

No the installation was not below grade.