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 Post subject: Floating Hardwood Floor in High Rise Condo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:57 am 
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Ok...I Have already entertained applying a solid hardwood floor 3/4' floor with 3/4' plywood base and 1/8" cork.over concrete floor. The condo building was built in the late 60's so I do not believe it is Gypcrete.
Most people responding to this entry recommended a floating floor instead. Height concerns being one of them.With that being said here are my questions.
Question..what is the best height of cork to use in a floating floor so as to give you a solid feeling when walking on it? Any glue better than others?( I cannot use Quiet walk or Insulayment ... I have to use cork..Condo rules)
Question...Are the click style hardwood floors best for this application or are glued together better?
Question ...what is the best height of engineered hardwood floor for floating a floor 1/2" to 5/8 ...do they vary from that? Does the thinner width boards work better for a more solid felling when you walk on them?
Last question..in an engineerd floor for this appication is there any type of hardwood floor that I should not consider? This floor will also be used in the kitchen area.I am looking for medium stained hardwood..maybe Oak Maple or Cherry


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Amish made hardwood

 Post subject: Re: Floating Hardwood Floor in High Rise Condo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:34 am 
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Contrary to popular belief, using say a 1/4 inch cork underlay is not twice as efficient as 1/8 inch when it comes to sound deadening capabilities. The key here is simply to conform to minimum requirements that wont get you into trouble later with your condo board. If they say use 1/4 inch, use it; if you try to use 3/8th inch and the neighbours complain later, you could be in trouble.
Loose laying the cork, and floating the hardwood; will give you best results in achieving an FIIC rating that will be acceptable to the board.

As far as floor selection, best choice would be what is most esthetically attractive to you. Maintaining proper environment is the key to a successful install, not type of wood.
Although, having said that, some consideration must be given to personal lifestyle. A maple floor, athough the hardest wood you are considering, will show marks from abuse much more readily than a very dynamically grained floor such as oak.
So if you wear your roller blades in the home, use oak. If you like the subtle graining of maple, take off your work boots when entering your home.
If you like the beauty of Cherry, remember that it will change colour dramatically upon exposure to UV. So plan on re-arranging your furniture periodically to allow the whole floor to mature.

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 Post subject: Re: Floating Hardwood Floor in High Rise Condo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:02 am 
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I've never heard the use of 1/8" cork in high rises. From my experience it's always been 1/4" Common specs.

I'd feel more confident with a wider plank floating installation, providing the subfloor is flat.

If you want solid feel without using ply and 3/4" material, gluing 1/4" cork and an engineered was the norm when I spent a lot of time doing high rise floors in Naples, FL (1993-2002) I cannot remember many floating floors, but these people generally had plenty of money to spend. Keep in mind, handling this kind of work may be out of the realm of your average installer.

Dennis offers some great tips on types.

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 Post subject: Re: Floating Hardwood Floor in High Rise Condo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2010 9:09 am 
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Thanks for the reply..I need a little more clarification.
The building association for the condo high rise states...."All wood parquet and ceramic tiles, or the like shall be installed over either 1/2" plywood, or 1/8 corkment properly installed"
Is corkment the same as cork or is this an alternative to cork?
When you say ...Loose laying the cork, and floating the hardwood; will give you best results in achieving an FIIC rating that will be acceptable to the board...does that mean that you lay it loose with no adhesive?
I understand the types of floors...great explanation but what about the thickest of the wood? what is the best for a solid feeling? 1/2/...5/8 and can engineered floor be repaired or restained like solid.?
Lastly.. is a click system as good as a glued system?...thanks for the help?


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 Post subject: Re: Floating Hardwood Floor in High Rise Condo
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:39 am 
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Ken...you said
I'd feel more confident with a wider plank floating installation, providing the subfloor is flat.

Question...how wide a Plank..is 3" fine?

If you want solid feel without using ply and 3/4" material, gluing 1/4" cork and an engineered was the norm when I spent a lot of time doing high rise floors in Naples, FL (1993-2002) I cannot remember many floating floors, but these people generally had plenty of money to spend. Keep in mind, handling this kind of work may be out of the realm of your average installer.

Question...if Engineered floor was the norm and you did not float these floors in Naples then how did you apply them? Did you glue down the 1/4" cork and then glue down the engineered floor over the cork ? Did you use 3/8" or 1/2 engineered floor?


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 Post subject: Re: Floating Hardwood Floor in High Rise Condo
PostPosted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:38 am 
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j:

I never got used to those 3" planks for floating because there's more chance of play within the boards themselves. The older designed for floating floors, while still available have a tighter fit. Kahrs, Tarkett examples.

Actually quite a few of them were solid high end unfinished specialty (before the days of Owen Plank) so they could be sanded and finished. Thicknesses were 3/8 to 1/2" made by Firebird. Others being popular were 5/8" thick bamboo in the late 90's. 1/4" cork was glued, rolled and allowed to cure for 24 hours before the actual hardwood was glued. This was also a time before Bostiks made the rounds as the premier adhesive. Nowadays it's paramount to use the same glue for the cork as what's specified for the engineered hardwood if a urethane glue is used.

Re-staining probability (unless you're referring to refinishing and coating) has much to do with the wear layer thickness of an engineered. Beveled floors would be problematic opposed to square edge floors. That's more up someone else's alley than mine.

Repairs? All repairs take an excellent installer so it doesn't look like a repair.

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 Post subject: Re: Floating Hardwood Floor in High Rise Condo
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 am 
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Last question anybody....
I have decised to do the Engineered floor( probably click system or glue the joints) with glued down 1/4" cork (Condo insists on cork) on the concrete floor.
I have also decided to do a to use a 4" to 5" wide-board that is 3/8" to 1/2" thick with a at least a 2MM to 3MM veneer.
Last question....would it be best for stabilty purposes, just to float this floor on the cork or would it be best just to glue it to the cork?
Thanks for thew guidance to get me to this point.


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 Post subject: Re: Floating Hardwood Floor in High Rise Condo
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:22 am 
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jfloor wrote:
Last question anybody....
I have decised to do the Engineered floor( probably click system or glue the joints) with glued down 1/4" cork (Condo insists on cork) on the concrete floor.
I have also decided to do a to use a 4" to 5" wide-board that is 3/8" to 1/2" thick with a at least a 2MM to 3MM veneer.
Last question....would it be best for stabilty purposes, just to float this floor on the cork or would it be best just to glue it to the cork?
Thanks for thew guidance to get me to this point.


I guess I'm "anybody" :D

Either method, engineered is a very stable product.
That being said, a floating floor tends to expand and contract more than a gluedown. But IMO, I don't think there's a big stability issue to be concerned with, being it's an engineered product.
If it was me....I would go with floating in a high rise, or 2nd floor condo,( being you chose a 5" width ), for the added security of avoiding sound transmission to your neighbors down below.
Most engineered woods can be floated, but check on the Manuf. install specs.

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 Post subject: Re: Floating Hardwood Floor in High Rise Condo
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:44 pm 
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No need to glue ANYTHING down. Float the cork and tape the cork panels together. Float the hardwood over it. You could use something like the Floor Muffler on TOP of the cork and under the floating floor if you wanted to reduce noise transmission even more. But you would not have to. As others have pointed out, floating floors ( actually, all floors ) will perform much better if they are installed over a FLAT surface. Make sure you take the time to flatten the gyp-crete.


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 Post subject: Re: Floating Hardwood Floor in High Rise Condo
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 7:37 am 
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Yup, why glue the cork down, its not going anywhere, and will only increase material costs un-necessarily.

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 Post subject: Re: Floating Hardwood Floor in High Rise Condo
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:24 am 
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Ok.. I understand that first and foremost you need a Flat concrete floor .
Also I need to get clarification from the condo association as to their wording of what "Properly installed cork" means. Can I just lay cork tiles or rolled cork ( does that matter?).... lay it or glue it down
But some installers ( not you) have said that that the proper way to install cork is to glue it down ..After that, some installers , say that glueing down the wood ( not floating it) to the cork gives a more sturdy under foot feeling to the floor with less movement..Confusing on what to do
Lastly, on most installs on any floor in a kitchen you lay the floor then you place the cabinets on top of the floor. But some say that on a floated floor you have to place the cabinets first and then run the floor up to the cabinets...saying that the weight of the cabinets are too much for a floated floor. Again confused on what to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Floating Hardwood Floor in High Rise Condo
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:59 pm 
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Thin, rolled cork will not lay flat very well. Thicker, cork panels will. Glue it if you want. Last one I did, I floated the 1/2" cork panels.


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