Prelim info:

Concrete slab on grade 3 yrs old
Live in Chicago burbs
500 sqft
floating br111 1strip casanova
Kahrs (tuplex) underlayment

I had a floating BR111 Casanova Sicilian Teak floor installed about a month ago. After reading this site for a year and thouroughly educating myself on what to look for and the right questions to ask I made a decision to go to a local family owned flooring company that has been in business for 18 years and is a member of the NWFA. After talking with the sales person I felt fairly comfortable and was assured that they were going to be very cautious about quality and workmanship. I was told they there would a project manager and 4 installers and that they had done an installation like this before. I told the salesperson that I was concerend about the flatness of some areas of the floor and also the moisture level (I was pretty sure it was fine, but i have learned from here that it should always be tested no matter what). The sales person assure me that it would be checked and prepped according the BR111 specs.

Oh yeah, I was told that they had the wood in an acclimation room for a week (is that BS?) Although the wood was cold to the touch when it got here and they put it all in my garage which was about 20 degrees.

Here are my results:

-The project manager came out after the old flooring was ripped up. I asked about flatness and he says "oh, it looks fine" I told him some areas looked a little low and again he assured me it would be fine because the pad would compensate for it.

-Then I asked him to moisture test and again he said "well you are up on a hill a little bit and we are using a moisute barrier...it will be fine"
(This is where I should have stopped the install)

-They finished the job in 1.5 days and I noticed they only taped the joints the first day

Here is what I got for 7 grand...

-The floor makes a squish sound in many areas from where the floor is low and the wood presses the underlayment...sounds like im walking on diapers. Some areas are fine, but the places I told them to check flatness are all screwwed up.

-In many areas the floor is really soft when you step and you can see that as you step it pushes about 2 square feet of wood around it to dip.

Anyway the list goes on (although the wood looks awesome by the way)

I called the sales person and expressed my woes and they are coming out with the head project manager...do you all think I have a case to get some things fixed or replaced and done right?
Would it be possible to take the floor up and put down plywood then reinstall the floor using the staple method?

Thanks for your replys.

Chris

Sounds like a mess. Tell the manager you want the floor done RIGHT this time and no BS. Tell him what you told us; exactly! Tell him how concerned and disatisfied you are and you want the floor done correctly. Pad NEVER makes up for uneven substrates. A moisture barrier should ALWAYS be used under a floater over concrete. Why not, it's cheap plastic sheeting and good insurance. They may need to remove the floor to install it correctly.

Just because the shop boast NWFA, does not mean the have proven there abilities to their peers.
They must have a certification, not a bought membership.


I would make them take it all back out and replace it, the "Wright way"

Sounds like the bid it low on the labor, and now they are going to pay double.

They cut every corner!!!!

I would write the NWFA a nice letter about what the shop representing the NWFA, tried to pull on you!!

I read on this website that people have independent inspectors come out to look at messed up floors. What is that for? Should I look at doing this in my situation if they give me the brush off or try to take short cuts on a fix?

MORE EMAIL---The company is coming out on wednesday to take a look...anything I should tell them from your point of view. Here is what I would like them to do...take up what they put down and reinstall with plywood as a subfloor. Is it possible to break apart glued br111 strips and reuse them in a stapled fashion?

If anybody else has comments feel free to add.

Reuse? I doubt it because the tongues will probably break apart or remain glued in the groove when the whole floor is disassembled.

$7,000 for 500sf?? Sounds very high to me. I'm curious how this job broke down cost-wise and if it included the rip-out of the old floor, and what the old floor was. (He said they did the job in a day and a half?)

DC

here is the break down:

7000 included material (Br111 casanova Sicilian teak), installation of floor and quarter round(roughly $3.15 sqft), quater round (maple and primed white), removal of 400 square feet of carpet, removal of 100 square feet vinyl flooring, underlayment, and glue.

Chris:

What was the outcome of the meeting? Hmmmn $14.00 per square foot. That is pretty darned steep considering it was a floater.

That's what I thought, especially since I found this wood on the internet as low as $4.87 sf. Even with estimating possibble tax & shipping, plus glue & underlayment, and a small amount of qround, that left approx 3,800 for labor - $7.60 psf. If we can get that for an install + carpet rip up, I want to work in Chicago!

here was the result of the meeting:

They came out and of course made every excuse in the book as to why my floors are like the way they are. They never once admitted to the fact that they should have done the things they said they were going to. He just kept saying "we are not a leveling and flatening company." I told him I knew that, but the sales person assured me they would at least check the flatness and halt the install if it needed it. He also kept saying that because it is so dry out right now the "depressions" I was feeling in the floor and consequently hearing the squish sound because of the Kahrs underlayment was caused by the wood contracting. He wanted to wait and come back out after the wood had expanded during the summer months. He felt that the expansion would reduce the "depression feeling". He said the next thing after that would be to have the BR 111 rep come out and make sure it is not faulty product, then they would fix the problem. I am supposed to receive a letter in a week stating their commitment to resolve the issue come august/september. He did say however that ripping up and reinstalling was out of the question.

The manager also kept assuming I know nothing about floors and let me tell you that I know I am not an expert but you all on this board have armed me with enough to make me dangerous.

My situation is exactly like the situation of the other guy on the board who started the thread about his "Floor literally floats about the subfloor". The only difference is that mine is in larger sections. One section is about 4 ft by 5 ft, another is about 10 ft by 2 ft (runs along a wall), and the last one is about 6 ft by 2 ft (runs along an outside wall).

What do you all think??

oh yeah..here is the exact break down from my invoice:

-remove vinyl flooring- $100
- Remoce carpet and pad- $110
-Material and Install- $6,650 (included 554 ft of BR111, glue, underlayment, 2 T molds)
- Material and install of maple shoe and pine shoe- $350
- Discount of $200 (to match lower install proce from another company)

=$7010

Overall I know I paid about 1000 too much if not more, but i thought I was going to get quality and I dont mind paying for quality. It is hard to find people in Chicago who care about what they do. It is always a race against time.

Please reply guys, let me know what you think I should do next. I am so irritated by this. All I want is what I paid for.

They accepted the substrate to meet the required specifications for a floating wood floor.

Did they ask you to sign a release stating they would not be liable, if the floor is not installed to specifications?
Giving you the option to decine the floor prep or accept an invoice for the extra work?

They are responsible for fully installing your floor, to manufacturers specifications!

It is not installed to specification.

Make them remove the floor and install it to specification, according to your contract. Don't let them tell you that it will cost you a dime. They should have brought up the floor prep and the extra charges involved, way before they accepted that substrate as suitable to meet manufacturers specifications.

I agree with Perry. These guys are trying to get out of a screwed up job. If there is a Contractors License Board in your state, contact them with a complaint. Contact any consumer agency that helps resolve disputes, public or private. You may need to get tough and have an attorney threaten suit. A barrage of actions against them will force them into negotiations. They are trying to brush you off. One thing more, I understand Chicago is an expensive place to live and do business. That needs to be factored into the costs when compairing prices, especially to Florida with it's low taxes. In some places (Ca. and others) local taxes, fees, insurances suck up much of the profit in the job. It's called income redistribution (another word for socialism).

Call BR-111 directly on their 800 #

Ask them to send you all their installation information and specifications for a successful, lasting installation.

Time for an update to my sitiation. Advice needed please.

I had a flooring inspector come out and take a look. He is preparing the report now and i should have it by tuesday. He was amazed at the installation quality and walked out with about 2 pages of notes. Here is my question:

Should I send the report with a letter from my attorney with my demands or should I send the report and ask for a meeting before I go the lawsuit route?

This is advice you should be asking an attorney.
I'm sorry to see you be treated this way as most small, local retailers are great as they depend on word of mouth to survive.