I just found this forum thankfully because I have some questions for you pros as to what, if anything, there is that we can do about our new installation that was messed up.

First of all let me precurse this by saying that this has been a classic example of husband not listening to wife and wife once again being right-
We have done this same job before in our kitchen and do everything ourselves so this is just another job in our major remodeling of our home. I always try to research and ask others how about to do things CORRECTLY while my husband's idea is to figure it out and ask only when he becomes stuck in the situation. This is not a good plan when you have spent so much on a wood floor and you can't just take it up and start over.

Situation: 660sq of space, open floor plan, concrete installation with 30lb tar roofing paper used over the concrete subfloor. Details on the wood flooring are as follows: Appalachian Brand wood, Hermosa plank, Brazilan Hickory 3/8' using Bruce engineered wood glue from Lowes. Rooms being installed are open living/dining area, kitchen and hallway of ranch style home.

First of all, he didn't do any pre-moisture checking of the concrete subfloor like I said was a must. He didn't do any prechecking of levelness or flatness. I'm a perfectionist and I just like to do things as the pro's say they should be done. It was recommended by one of the home improvement stores that he put down some 30lb tar roofing paper on the subfloor with some Power Grab using a caulk gun. I recommended that he use glue and trowel it out instead but he insisted that was too much work so I didn't agure. When all was said and done, I noticed that the paper was very lumpy with air bubbles from just the beads of glue that were spread. He insisted that the weight of the wood would flatten them out. So he proceeds to begin the floor by starting in the middle of the living room after stringing a chalk line, etc. The installation is also being installed across installed of parallel. So when you open the front door you are looking at every plank horizontally instead of running up and down like I think they should be. He proceeds to put down about five feet of flooring and after a couple of days when we walk on it again I notice that it is very squishy under my feet and realize that it's from the two layers of paper put down with the power grab and all of the air bubbles in it. The weight of the wood DID NOT flatten them out and now the floor ripples in sunlight when you walk across it like you are walking across a wooden bridge. You can see it where the sunlight hits it and it sounds like you are walking on bubble wrap a little bit. And there are some large gaps at the ends of the board fittings, some are noticeable even from a standing position.After we discovered this he ripped up all of the tar paper that has been put down with the power grab adhesive and relaid it with a trowel and glue purchased from Lowes and only put down one layer of paper. It is very flat now and we installed five more rows of flooring with it being much better and not squishy. But now you walk from a squishy floor to a much flatter surface.

It's driving me crazy but I don't know what to do. We probably have invested about $500 into the wood that is down already and I'm guessing that you just can rip up the paper and remove the flooring from it and re-use it with some work can you? The paper that was put down with the power grab came up extremely easy. It was more like a floating floor than a glued down one. I can't stand the gaps and the squishiness but I also know that we don't have tons of money to be replacing it really but I know this is going to be down for a LONG time and need to know if it's worth it to be so perfectionistic over it. Should I just try to forget it and move on or are we looking at other problems down the road if we leave it the way it is and move on and do a better job from here?

Sorry so long...

As a husband, I think your husband did a perfect job, but I don't see you ridding yourself of the noise without removing the floor and starting over.

That's hilarious!

Can I use that to promote quality installs and what not to do?

What the hell is Appalachian Brazilian Hickory? Appalachia is in North America and Brazil is in South America and hickory doesn't grow in South America. This designer naming of flooring is getting insane! What species of wood did you actually get? And where?
Anyway, your hubby, bless his heart, is doing everything WRONG! You might as well flush your moola down the toilet 'cause the floor's gonna fail bigtime.
Problem #1) Installing a solid, UNSTABLE wood (hickory) directly over concrete. Problem #2) No moistute testing. Problem #3) No moisture barrier (asphalt felt paper ISN"T a moisture barrier, regardless of what some clerk in a store told you) Problem #4) Using Bruce adhesive sold in a Big box store. I bet you paid maybe $40.00 for a 5 gallon pail. That's a latex adhesive for engineered floors, and not a very good one at that. Problem #5) Not flattening (leveling) the slab first.
So, remove the wood, remove the glue from the slab, start over completely. If you can't afford a quality professional installer, then at least read the prep and glue down directions on this site. Right here:
http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwo ... n-prep.htm
http://www.hardwoodinstaller.com/hardwo ... r/glue.htm

Yes bless his heart. I love him but get so mad sometimes when things like this happen because he won't take the time to research how to correctly do things especially something as important as the flooring. But it is said and done now so now we just need to find out what to do.

It's funny that you mentioned the instructions from here because the day they were laying the roofing paper I actually came in here and printed all of the instructions out and was telling him that it says this and and it says that and obviously to no avail.

Questions:
1. I noticed that in the pics on here it looks like they are installing directly to the concrete slab? Is there not a any type of moisture barrier that you put down firsr?
2. Where do you purchase Bostiks' glue? The Bruce glue was $55, how much is Bostiks?
3. The brand is Appalachian and it is Hermosa Plank in color of Brazilian Hickory 3/8.

So yep know i have heard alot of crazy things but glueing a floor down to felt is pretty sharp. Pretty good story.

While as a business owner myself I respect the humor in stories when you hear one such as this and you yourself are in the business, but please try to deliver some advice also with your comments as it would be greatly appreciated.

I made the mistake of calling it felt paper in my post above but it is actually 30lb roofing paper. Don't know if that makes it any better but just wanted to state my mistake.

Situation: 660sq of space, open floor plan, concrete installation with 30lb tar roofing paper used over the concrete subfloor. Details on the wood flooring are as follows: Appalachian Brand wood, Hermosa plank, Brazilan Hickory 3/8' using Bruce engineered wood glue from Lowes. Rooms being installed are open living/dining area, kitchen and hallway of ranch style home.

First of all, he didn't do any pre-moisture checking of the concrete subfloor like I said was a must. He didn't do any prechecking of levelness or flatness. I'm a perfectionist and I just like to do things as the pro's say they should be done. It was recommended by one of the home improvement stores that he put down some 30lb tar roofing paper on the subfloor with some Power Grab using a caulk gun. I recommended that he use glue and trowel it out instead but he insisted that was too much work so I didn't agure. When all was said and done, I noticed that the paper was very lumpy with air bubbles from just the beads of glue that were spread. He insisted that the weight of the wood would flatten them out. So he proceeds to begin the floor by starting in the middle of the living room after stringing a chalk line, etc. The installation is also being installed across installed of parallel. So when you open the front door you are looking at every plank horizontally instead of running up and down like I think they should be. He proceeds to put down about five feet of flooring and after a couple of days when we walk on it again I notice that it is very squishy under my feet and realize that it's from the two layers of paper put down with the power grab and all of the air bubbles in it. The weight of the wood DID NOT flatten them out and now the floor ripples in sunlight when you walk across it like you are walking across a wooden bridge. You can see it where the sunlight hits it and it sounds like you are walking on bubble wrap a little bit. And there are some large gaps at the ends of the board fittings, some are noticeable even from a standing position.After we discovered this he ripped up all of the tar paper that has been put down with the power grab adhesive and relaid it with a trowel and glue purchased from Lowes and only put down one layer of paper. It is very flat now and we installed five more rows of flooring with it being much better and not squishy. But now you walk from a squishy floor to a much flatter surface.

It's driving me crazy but I don't know what to do. We probably have invested about $500 into the wood that is down already and I'm guessing that you just can rip up the paper and remove the flooring from it and re-use it with some work can you? The paper that was put down with the power grab came up extremely easy. It was more like a floating floor than a glued down one. I can't stand the gaps and the squishiness but I also know that we don't have tons of money to be replacing it really but I know this is going to be down for a LONG time and need to know if it's worth it to be so perfectionistic over it. Should I just try to forget it and move on or are we looking at other problems down the road if we leave it the way it is and move on and do a better job from here?

The flooring has to come up Stratus. Engineered wood floors are glued either directly to the slab "or" glued directly over a trowel on moisture membrane which would go on first.

You should do a moisture test , Ken has that in the instructions that Gary linked you to. You also have to get the concrete flat enough for a glue-down installation.

Bostik's products are usually found at a flooring distributer. If you have the Bruce "Equalizer" adhesive that will work, but if you need a membrane applied you should stick with a brand "system" such as Bostik's MVP membrane and Bostik's Best adhesive.

Thank you Jerry. Just asking out of curiosity, I have heard of people saying that it is okay to glue them to existing vinyl flooring providing that the viny is clean and well adhered to the subfloor. True or false? This is not our case but just curious? Seems that there is alot of false info out there.

Question and please excuse me ahead of time if it is a dumb one. Is there anyway at all to "save" the flooring that we have already glued to the roofing paper and re-use it even if it took some work to scrape, etc. ?

That is true about the vinyl, and one of the better methods as long as the guy or gal knows exactly what they are doing.

I don't know if you can salvage the flooring but I would certainly give it a try. If the glue was a water based it may have introduced some moisture into the wood. Also if the adhesive got squeezed into the T&G joints they would have to be cleaned out throughly.

If you can reuse it I would try and relocate it in closets, under furniture, ect.

I just went and looked at the glue carefully and it reads:

Bruce Connection PR+
Wood Flooring Polymeric Resin Adhesive

Good or Bad?

It is not the best, it is more of a DIY product and is used because it can fill minor imperfections in the sub-floor, not the best idea in my opinion. Leveling the floor is the professional way of fixing the problem. Bruce equalizer is the top glue that Bruce manufactures. Did you check your wood manufacturers warrantee and see if they will warrantee Bruce glues with their product? Bostik, Franklin and Sika are considered to be top recommendations for a glue down project.

If you are going to glue the engineered flooring down you cannot use felt paper or poly film, you must either use a chemical moisture barrier like Bostik MVP or lay cheap sheet vinyl and glue to that. Gluing to felt or poly film will result in the floor de-bonding as you are attaching two surfaces to a thin film or paper product. You have to pull the installed floor and use something stronger like vinyl or glue directly to the slab with MVP applied.




Usually installers install on the longest run of the room, if it is on joist they install across the joist but the longest run requires fewer cuts so installers prefer it. On a slab the direction is more of an aesthetic and preference thing. It will just cause you more work to run it with the shorter run.

I mentioned to my husband today when he called that I had posted our situation on this forum and I am going to let him read it tonight so please post anything and everything that you think we need to know for our future floor's sake.I don't want to have spent all of this money on the wood and screw up the installation. When there's money involved, moving forward no matter what can easily become the reality instead of stopping and correcting the problem.