We have a carpeted concrete slab floor that we plan to replace with engineered hardwood floor. We've selected the material and the supplier offered a free in house estimate for installation. What questions should we ask to make sure there is no hidden additional cost not covered during the installation? Here are some items I gather from briefly talking with them:

Included: Material delivery, removal of furniture, removal of existing carpet and disposal, cleaning and prepping the concrete slab, glue and wood floor installation

Not included: Leveling or repairing the concrete if needed, removing and/or replacing baseboard to install the hardwood underneath it, another option will be installing it without removing the baseboard but adding shoe molding or quarter round in front of the baseboard (cost of material and installation not included)

Anything else that I missed or should check when they're doing the estimate? I didn't ask if moisture check will be performed as part of the estimate. Has anybody had the option of removing the furniture and carpet yourself prior to the installation, thus reducing the cost of installation? Would they give a better estimate if they can pull some of the carpet and to get an idea of the floor finish? Also we selected Mannington brand for our floor. Do they have to use certain glue or other installation criteria to be covered under their warranty?

It doesn,t sound like you trust them much. Maybe you'll feel better getting a few different companies over there.

Whoever doesnt do a moisture test...move on.

I just like to be prepared and ask the right questions during the in home estimate so I can compare estimates. I do plan to get at least two or three other estimates for comparison. The installed price from the wood floor store I'm buying the material is a bit high and that prompted me to want to know what is or is not included compared to others. I'm in the process of setting up appointments with the various installers.

To me, I would want the person coming to my home to give me an estimate, the same person that is going to do the installation, be licensed and have good references.

Good Day!

You are a smart consumer to try and get all your 'ducks-in-a-row' and be prepared with questions and knowledge upon receiving these retailers. One gentleman who answered you stated do a moisture test. This is absolutely CRITICAL! He is absolutely correct. Make sure who ever does the moisture test that it is a quantitative moisture test: Relative Humidity testing (the most accurate of the test methods and a great test for what the moisture in the concrete will do in the future) or a Calcium Chloride Test (these readings are only good for the day the test results are collected). The moisture test needs to be a part of the estimate.

Some people test subfloors by choosing to only use meters or taping a piece of plastic on the concrete for 1 to 2 days to see if they get any condensation. These are called qualitative tests which allows a person to know if moisture is present, but they are not accurate in measuring the actual amount of moisture content that is present. In addition, qualitative testing should never used for make a decision to install floor coverings, especially hardwoods.

As far as the estimate is concerned have EVERYTHING itemized! Then after that has been done go through the itemization and see if they will discount the cost for items you are willing to do. If you want to check the square footage of how much material will be needed; take the square footage of each room and add the results, then multiply that by 1.05 (represents 5% overage) then you will have a really good idea of how much square footage you will need. If you have several angled walls you should add 10-12%.

As for using the Mannington products I would highly recommend you use all Mannington products. First off, they are first rate. The first article I ever wrote I stated in the title, "READ THE DIRECTION!!!!!!!!!" The manufacture has done all the research and development for their product, so they know the limitations of their product. All the installation, care guides, and warranties are based on those limitations. If a person steps outside the scope of Mannington's guidelines, or for that matter any manufacturer's guidelines, then a person should expect to have problems. If you do not that is great, but be prepared!

Hopefully, this has helped and we wish the best for you and your family in your endeavor!
Roy A. Leach
Floor Covering Inspections NW

Nice post Roy. Cept Mannington is very vague about mositure testing.



It does not say you actually MUST do a cacl test but merely infers to such a test.

I did not read the adhesive moisture control warranty but I assume it says if you use it and install it properly they will warranty it.

Oh yeah, no acclimation needed either. uh huh These manufacturers are all jumping on that bandwagon to sell more product, less hassle for consumers, more sales.

Here is the 2010 installation booklet, wood starts at pg 59

http://www.mannington.com/Residential/H ... 2010R.ashx

When ever in doubt call the manufacturer with specific questions and get the answer straight from the 'horse's mouth,' but ALWAYS get it in writing! Have the confirmation sent to you via email is just fine.

However, Mannington does require moisture testing. Here is a quote from the manual that was sent to me:

“Regardless of the time in place or the grade level, all concrete subfloors must be tested for moisture and alkalinity before covering with flooring products. Although nearly each product type in each product category has a different tolerance for permissible moisture vapor emissions, it is important to have a quantitative reading to be able to resolve any potential problems before, rather than after the fact. The most common quantitative moisture test is the Anhydrous Calcium Chloride test. This test must be performed in accordance with ASTM F 1869-04, “Standard Test Method for Measuring Moisture Vapor Emissions Rate of Concrete Subfloor Using Anhydrous Calcium Chloride.” According to the ASTM, the moisture emissions from the concrete floor shall not exceed 3 lbs/1000 sq. ft./24 hours.


“There are many manufacturers of quality moisture reading devises. However, there is no standard correlation
between the meter reading and the calcium chloride or the relative humidity test methods. Each meter is calibrated to its own scale and must be interpreted as directed by the manufacturer.”

In the same manual on the next page states, "Another quantitative moisture test method is the In Situ Relative Humidity test. This test measures the relative humidity level within the concrete slab. This test must be performed in accordance with ASTM F 2170. The relative humidity of the slab must not exceed 75%. If the relative humidity in the slab exceeds 75%, do not install anyMannington Floor Coverings. (Unless an approved moisture resistant adhesive is used.)"


Concrete always has moisture within it. Therefore, to be sure you stay within the scope of what the manufacturer recommends it is always to your best interest to test the concrete for moisture.
The best to you and your family!

Roy A. Leach
Floor Covering Inspections NW

Is that a different manual than the new one I linked to Roy? You obviously know ya have to stay up to date. They change those manuals and installation requirements like they change their underware.

Have you seen the services page on my website?

http://www.tucsonazflooring.com/services.html

Good Day Stephen,

The quotes were taken from the link you sent. The first sentence under the title "Moisture Test" section states that moisture testing must done on old and new concrete before Mannington's products are installed. This can be found on page 8. You are right though, manufacturers change their protocols frequently. That was one of the driving reasons to write the "Read the Directions" article.


When I inspect a ceramic tile floor that has failed, for example, I always hunt down the ANSI & NTCA guidelines that were printed for the year the tile was installed. This is because, like you said, the protocols are always changing and frequently. It would be unfair to the installer and manufacturer if conclusions were written to a report of a product that was installed ten years ago based on current ANSI and NTCA protocol.


You suggested I look at your Webpage and I did and you have done a terrific job. I would recommend people looking at it, especially Arizona folks who are having issues with their concrete flooring.

The best to you and your family!

Roy A. Leach
Floor Covering Inspections NW

Thanks for pointing that out Roy, I missed that part. You'd think it would be actually in the wood section. I wonder whats actually shipped in the boxes of wood? I doubt they print that whole booklet for each box.

A lot of good info here. Thx for the input. I think for the most part 'seasoned' installer should know the correct procedures for installing the wood floor. I asked few of the installer if they're familiar with installing Mannington product and they said they've done plenty. Well, that's not necessarily the same answer I'm looking for is it?

Also they seem to think moisture check is secondary and say they'll wait to do one if asked/necessary after they remove the carpet. They say it's costly and take time to do the calcium chloride moisture check. Also it was mentioned that moisture resistant adhesive can be used as an option to moisture check.

The installers has quoted Bostik in their estimate. I've read that Bostik is recommended on most job. I would think it would be comparable to Mannington's own adhesive. It seems unfair to discredit other comparable product to sell yours when dealing with warranty.

The problem with NOT doing a moisture test and just throwing down a moisture retarder is that if your moisture is to high it may not cure correctly besides the usual flooring failure. That is why they all have limits and even Bostik requires a cacl test. Unless you watch the MVP video???

Cacl tests are time consuming. I chg 250 or more depending. They should learn how to do a Rh test since most manufacturers have numbers for that now. With a Rapid Rh test I can tell you in minutes if it's a go.