I'm in urgent need of some professional advice and I hope you guys can help me out. Licensed contractor started install on my New (1 yr old) Town House Friday. I let them in, gave them a key, and left for work. His crew of 4 laid 11 of 25 boxes, expecting to return Monday & Tuesday too. Everything looks great. Joints look & feel tight, cuts are neat and it generally looks like a professional job to my eyes. So what's the problem? Planks are laid parallel to the joists. Everything I've read and heard on this topic says that they're supposed to be laid across the joists, and nailed into the joists. The install is 3/4" prefinished kempas (aka indonesian cherry) to plywood subfloor over 2x10 joists 16" apart.

Is this really a disaster and if so, how big is it?

I should mention that I'm setting up two medium sized reef tanks which combined weigh about the same as a full-sized sedan. The joists can handle that kind of weight no problem. But I'm afraid that the floor laid this way doesn't strengthen the structure but instead it just adds weight. I'm also wondering if buckling will become a problem as the house settles. And if it has to be relaid, who pays for the wood. Can the wood they laid be reused?

I'm reluctant to call the contractor until I have some neutral expert advice. Otherwise I'm stuck going along with whatever he says. Man, I'm feeling completely hosed right now.

I've been reading up on it and it seems like this isn't as serious as I feared. Apparently, installing the wood parallel to joists over 3/4" plywood is not recommended, but it won't actually weaken the structure of the floor. The danger is that gaps will open up and there will be some squeaking - have I got that right?

So what do I do? I talked about the job with the contractor before they started Friday morning and we discussed which way the floor was to be run. I left for work before the crew started and I know the contractor had an appointment that morning in a nearby city. He didn't supervise his crew and that's why the floor got run the wrong way. As far as I know he still doesn't know about this mistake. I have to figure out what I want from him before Monday morning when the crew returns.

I was thinking of telling him that he had two options. (1) tear up the 11 boxes of flooring his crew nailed down, replace it, and then redo the install with the boards perpendicular to the joists. Or, (2) complete the install with the boards parallel to the joists but give me an agreement in writing that if I decide that the squeaking and gaps are intolerable that he agrees to replace my floor completely, parts and labor. Do you guys think that's fair? Honestly, I'm not too fussy and wouldn't mind the odd squeak but I would find some noisy old home wood floors pretty intolerable. You know the ones where every time you shift in your chair it groans. That would be awful.

I'm also concerned about a warrantee problem. Checked the site for Johnson wood and don't see anything pertaining to joist direction so I guess that's OK. I'll call Monday to make sure. And I wonder if it might become a problem when I go to sell my house someday. Will a home inspector say that this is a problem?

Lesson learned: stay for the start of the installation to make sure they get it started right.

Anyway, I really would like to hear what you guys think. Especially those in the industry.

And I should probably mention that he seems like a real nice guy.

The distance between each joist is called curvature.... probably for good reason. The guidelines call for wood flooring to be laid perpendicular to the joist to take curvature out of the equation. If one needs the flooring run parallel (with the curvature), then the subflooring has to be made stouter, stiffer. Either by adding wood blocking underneath or by adding an additional layer of plywood called an underlayment.

My understanding is over time the floor could start to exhibit a washboard look. It would make sense that this could also lead to fasteners getting loose and possibly gaps or squeaks developing.... i don't know myself because i have never tried it.

Thanks for the response, Jerry. I'm going to call him today (Sunday) and explain what his crew did. Hopefully he'll volunteer to eat the cost of the wood they laid down, which is around $900. Fortunately I just got the wood a couple of weeks ago and is still on sale. Won't know until tomorrow if they have it in stock.

What a mess.

Just so you know, installers do this all the time, but we are not supposed to. You make your own decision, it's your house.

Well after looking into it the options are pretty simple, really. On one hand, I personally like the contractor, he is a real nice guy. On the other hand his crew installed $900 of flooring in a way that is contrary to our agreement and contrary to industry standards set down by NWFA. If he doesn't offer to make it right I'm going to ask him to do so. I believe he will.

My earlier plan to let him finish the installation but promise to replace the floor if trouble arises is just not realistic because I have no way of knowing if he'll still be in business then. I feel bad for the guy, I really do. But this mistake is his, not mine.

Just got off the phone with my contractor. I explained the problem to him, and after about a 3-5 second pause while he absorbed the news, he volunteered that he would pull it up, buy replacement wood, and put it down across the joists. What a stand up guy!

Sounds like a flooring contractor that will survive the current slow-down in the industry. Always happy to see someone whose primary concern is for the customer's satisfaction.
A couple of minor points I would like to make:
When nailing through a 3/4 inch subfloor, the 2 inch cleats or staples we use only penetrate by about 1/4 inch or less, so there is no real necessity to nail into the joists.
I personally would not rely on the joist system alone to support those reef tanks without causing some deflection. If the area underneath that section of the house is unfinished basement, I would be putting in a beam perpendicular to the joists, at the leading edge of the tanks, and tranfer the load down to the concrete below.
I also imagine that this contractor should be able to salvage at least some of the material without causing any problems with the re-install.
I am somewhat amazed that a four man crew only laid a couple hundred feet on the first day. Was there other prep they had to do? A crew would starve to death at that rate in my neighbourhood.

Thanks for the info, Dennis, I appreciate it. Contractor is stopping by this morning and I'll find out if he's planning to salvage any of the wood they laid down. Good to know that the cleats don't go far enough into the joists to matter. I don't think the crew is slow, they had to remove the carpet/vinyl flooring that was there before.

Good ideas about the tanks. The 100 gal is going in a protruding bay window. It is centered over the concrete exterior wall and the support for the bay window looks pretty overbuilt to me - approx 10" centers with lots of blocking. The 200 gal doesn't have that kind of support though. It is going over the unfinished part of the basement so as you suggest, I'll shore it up from the bottom.

Thanks to the guys who responded and also to the people who keep this board running. It has been a huge help to me during this "emergency." I'll keep checking back if anyone has anything else to say, I'd like to hear it.

If the weight of that first tank is directly over the foundation wall, you should be good to go. If it protrudes out a bit, the area is probably cantilevered. It should be able to handle the weight but watch it's effects carefully. The other area could be supported by adding lolly columns in the basement below, which could support a girder.

Re: the parallel install. I will tell you, while it is in the NOFMA and NWFA manual to run the flooring at 90 degrees to the joists, I see it run parallel in some places and it appears to be fine. This is with 3/4" plywood ( not 5/8" ) over joists 16" oc. Your flooring contractor does have another option other than removing the wood and re-installing it. He could add blocking from below between the joists. This is a NOFMA and NWFA approved method. Simply cut standard 2 x 6 framing material into blocks that wedge firmly between the joist bays. Add construction adhesive to the tops. Pound them firmly up into place so the contact the subfloor and using a framing nailer and 3.5" framing nails, nail through the existing joists into the end butt of each block. Blocking can be offset to allow for nailing. NOFMA calls for blocking to be 16" oc. I think 20" should be fine but I'll concede to NOFMA's recommendation. I would strongly recommend this approach if at all possible. It would be a shame to tear out that flooring. Also, which direction is the most pleasing direction visually? Parallel to joists or perpendicular?

Yeah it is a shame to pull it up. Half the basement beneath this floor is finished, so blocking isn't really feasible. He offered to "extend the warrantee". I had to turn him down. Had to. I know there is a chance that I wouldn't have had problems. But the cost of correcting is a lot less now than later. And once you set up an aquarium moving it is no small matter.

Any idea where I could find those lolly columns? Is that a home depot thing or should I try a metal shop. Thanks for the advice, it is appreciated.

As far as I understand, they are fabricated at a metal shop. Consult an architectural engineer. The type of steel, the thickness and gauge, the diameter of the column and how it affixes to the girder/beam and the floor have to be engineered. Or you can just put in a 4 x 6 post but it may not be code.

You can get them at HD or Lowes here .

I don't think that anyone touched on the FACT that flooring can be installed ANY direction providing there is a subfloor of 1" thickness or better. If the flooring is installed on 1" hardi-board (tongue and groove 1" ply), you can go either way. We have a lot of crews in Tulsa which don't ever ask either. Glad you got it fixed

While that may indeed be a FACT, in this particular case, the sub-floor is 3/4 inch so it doesnt apply here.