I installed 450 sqft of the BR-111 Indusparquet 7/16" Solid Santos Mahogany hardwood flooring thru a licensed installer. A staple down installation was performed. Immediately after installation, there were creaking/crackling sounds all over the floor while walking. The installation was done on a solid plywood base. We filed a claim with Golden state in CA, USA who is the BR-111 authorized dealer. The guy from golden state produced a tech report from BR-111 that Santos Mahogany is prone to this problem and we should wait for 3-months for the noises to disappear. We filed a claim with BR-111 asking for an investigation. The installer said there should be no noise after the installation and that the product is defective.
Has anyone had this problem? Any suggestions about what to do here? We are waiting to hear from BR-111 now for over 1 week.

Aside from a possible product problem, some things that come to mind:

1. out of tolerance subfloor(not flat)
2. wrong fasteners/wrong length used to install the flooring


There are other possibilities as well.

Golden State is a quality organization. But I find it hard to believe that any floor is "supposed" to make noise after installation. There can be many reasons for the flooring to make noise after installation and most are installer error. A professional inspection is called for. Hopefully, BR-111 will get in touch soon. It will be interesting to see what they have to say. Let us know.

Thanks for your responses folks.
The house is a 3-yr old townhouse. The sub-floor was pretty flat when the installer checked before the installation. The usual gas based pressure staple gun was used and the staples were put approx 8-9" apart. The surprising thing was BR-111 producing this tech report that Santos Mahogany was prone to this and we should allow for 3-months for the noises to settle. We were not informed about this at all before purchasing the wood. The wood planks are 2 5/8" wide. When I walk over it, I can feel some movement in some of the planks. The noise produced is like a glass cracking when pressure is applied to it or like a belt being stretched.

It could very well be improper fastening schedule.

4" schedule for thin engineereds.

Or over driven staples, breaking the tongues. As I said, many causes are possible. I recall installing an engineered with their own nailer, the Floor Monster (made by Spotnails). The floor was 3" wide by 9/16" thick and 42" long. I was stapling it down using their longest staples every 6". It still creaked and crackled. Very annoying. I never did figure out the cause. It just seems that some floors should not be nailed/stapled down.

NOFMA states:
The occasional noise can be acceptable. Noises all over and multiple repeatable noises generally are not. A repeatable creak can often be quieted with a fastener into the area of the noise. The source of a nonrepeatable noise can be difficult to determine.
Eliminating it often will require more than just an additional fastener.
Noises in solid wood flooring can be associated with any element in the flooring system:
• The flooring itself.
• The fastener connection between flooring
and subflooring.
• The subflooring connection to the substrate
or wood joists.

Listed possibilities:
A loose Tongue and groove fit. If the bottom lip of the groove is too thick or thin additional movement can occur between boards.
Fasteners:
The fastener connection is the most common cause of noises in flooring. Too few fasteners, fastening technique, improper fastener, and sometimes too many fasteners can lead to noisy floors. Too few fasteners as a reason is perhaps obvious. If the flooring is not fastened it will move, creak and squeak when walked on.

Say Ray, where did you/do you get those NOFMA specs? I hear of people quoting what NOFMA states as acceptable but have never seen it in print and not on their website. Where is it?

Hi Folks,
Thanks for your responses again. I am still waiting for the claim to go from Golden State in CA to BR-111. Golden State certainly seems to have a bunch of incompetent guys who refuse to take responsibility. The retailer - Royal Carpet in CA, who I bought the wood from blames Golden State and Golden State says they are not responsible since I didn't buy the wood from them. It's so sad to be stuck in the middle of this. I asked for a refund and both the retailer and Golden State started shrugging their shoulders. First they sell a defective product and then refuse to take responsibility. I don't know what to do now.

PM me. I know the pres. of Golden State. I'll ask him about your floor. They won't refund your money as you didn't buy it from them. The retailer is stuck as well. Untill BR-111 steps in with a factory rep, there will not be much movement. These things take time, trust me, been there, I know. Took a Bruce rep 2 months to get out to inspect a floor I laid. Look at it this way. If you bought a new car that had problems, the dealer is not going to give you your money back (unless it meets the lemon laws). They get the manufacturer to pay them to fix it. That's how it's done here as well. Neither GSF or the retailer have the authority to declare the floor defective, even if it is, until the manufacturer says it is and agrees to pay for a claim. Hang in there. Nothing is going to happen fast or quickly.

Whats underneath the plywood? A slab or floor joist?


I have a few questions if you would oblige me.
Were any moisture readings performed by the installer?
Did the installers correct any areas that were not "pretty flat"?
What gage and crown staple was used?
Was the wood brought in and installed the same day?

Gary,

www.nofma.org

Click on Publications.

NOFMA is the only Standards Setting Board for solids (american and canadian grown wood) accepted by the U.S. Government.
NOFMA members must also meet the NOFMA engineered flooring specifications as well.

The Standards for Engineered wood is the HPVA (plywood veneer association).. ANSI/HPVA 2002 document.

Ray,

I've been on that site many times and refer it to others often. I've read through their publications many, many times but have yet to see where NOFMA states noises are acceptable and that other one I hear quoted a lot, that if one is in a standing position and cannot see the "defect", then it's not a defect, in NOFMA's opinion.

And I am fully aware of WHO NOFMA is and how long they've been around (over a century).

What I am trying to find are these "standards" you quoted.

Gary - I have PMed you.

Answers to the questions
Whats underneath the plywood? A slab or floor joist?

Answer>Below the plywood is the floor joist. Not concrete. This is a 3 level townhome and the living room where the installation was performed is level 1. There is a basement directly underneath.

I have a few questions if you would oblige me.

Were any moisture readings performed by the installer?
Answer> Yes mositure readings were performed by the installer.

Did the installers correct any areas that were not "pretty flat"?
Answer>Nothing was done in my opinion. The installer used a brown sheet of paper on top of the plywood and directly started the staple installation on top of the brown paper. The installer said since we owned the basement also, the sound proofing foam was not required on the plywood.

What gage and crown staple was used?
Answer> I am sorry, I do not know what kind of staple was used. I can find out from the installer.

Was the wood brought in and installed the same day?
Answer>The wood was purchased and let to sit for 3 days before installation. There were 18 boxes in all. So it was stacked in 6 columns of 3 boxes piled on top of 1 another. It was let to sit in normal room temperature in the living room for 3 days before being installed.

Gary, I think this the link Ray was quoting.

http://www.nofma.com/Portals/0/Publicat ... 200505.pdf