The cause of your problems, is that big ass fastener your trying to use in a 9/16 thick, hard ass, dense, board.

After your done banging a few rows, look and see if there are fastener "pimples" Little humps where every fastener is.

It turned out my troubles weren't over. In the last few days, I had spent considerable time finding the "sweet spot" for the staple to go in. Problem was, that I had shimmed the nailer so much that the metal bits around the staple ejecting orifice were hitting the top edge of the bamboo and damaging the finish. I interrupted installation to do a quick search on this site for the resolution. I lowered my shims, and that mostly fixed the finish damage, but caused more tongue cracking. In the end I lowered my shim but added a forward tilt, which seems to be a reasonable compromise: occasional damage to the finish, but only if I get on my hands and needs and check it out with a spot light, and not too bad cracking, which means some cracking on about 50% of staples, but generally pretty small and not at the top of the tongue.

I put down four rows this today, and I can't see any dimples or pimples. I've checked things out with a level looking for surface irregularities around the staples, and can find none.

You got alot more patience than I have... that gun would have gone out the window by now.

I realize you are stuck because the manufacturer recommends a 15 ga. fastener. Imo that is simply too much mass for a 9/16 engineered wood. I bet my Spotnails 18ga. 1/4" crown stapler would do the job.

More struggles today trying to find the magic incantation to avoid both cracking and finish damage. I was doing OK this afternoon. I think my finish damage problem is because my nailer isn't well designed for wood as thin as mine. I'm not sure about an 18 gauge staple - I would have agreed a few days ago, but when I saw the 16 gauge guys getting thrashed rather than sunk in the wood, I am not sure.

But now that I have more rows down, I can see pimples - little bumps at each staple location. The light and my head has to be just right to see it. I can't 'see the pimples on the rows I laid yesterday, but that could easily be because they are against the north wall and I can't get the right angle of light. But I am using a bit more pressure today.

Any suggestions for my pimple problems? Less pressure? I can't go much lower without the crown not getting set properly. I have tilted the nailer so that the staples are going in at an angle a bit shallower than the stock 45 degrees.

That's what happens using a big gauge fastener on an engineered wood. You don't notice or even feel these dimples until the lighting hits it just right.

You ought to stop right now and call up the manufacturer. Another reason is your gun does not have the correct foot (boot) for installing this 9/16 wood.

I think you got the wrong impression about how thinner gauge fasteners work. These pull trigger type 18 gauge guns are designed for engineered flooring. You don't get the tongue splitting, edge damage or dimpling effect like a big gauge mallet gun will likely cause. You do have to shoot them every 3-4" instead of 8-10" apart.

The nailer that is sorta in between the staplers like Spotnail and the Floor Runner and the larger machines like our fav, the M111 FS, is the PowerNailer model 200. Now it's not my favorite in terms of speed, ease of use or cost. But it does handle some of the more unusual nail down install problems. It comes with multiple base shoes and shims which makes adjusting the foot to the flooring quite easy. Plus the E-cleats do not crack tongues. It doesn't slam the wood down as well and you still use a small mallet but for the difficult floor, it can be just the thing. I'd say, in your case, the model 200 would have been worth the try.

Jerry said:

I'm sure you're right Jerry. As is typical for me, I know just enough to be dangerous. I do like the way the big gun pulls in warped boards.

Floorguy, thanks a ton for suggesting I look for pimples. They are subtle, so I wouldn't have seen them ... until I was done. There was one board where I could see every staple, and most, but not all, boards I could see at least one. I must have been just at the threshold.

So what to do? I considered loading the nailer up with 15.5 gauge staples and letting it have a go at my head, but the dog talked me out of it. I've lost track of the number of mistakes and bad assumptions I've made along the way. When I was testing, I would fire a nail/staple in and put a 8" sample next to it and check the fit. If it didn't fit snug, then I decided it was a failed test. I have since learned that in real life, stapling a full length piece in seems to pull it up snug despite my sample not looking so good. So I have gone back to 1.5" 16 gauge staples (anyone want to buy 7700 15.5 gauge staples? ) I was able to turn the pressure down to 90-95 and now I have no pimples, no broken tongues, and no finish damage. Finally I am good to go!

Thanks to Gary, Jerry, and Floorguy for all the help!

Another question though: I face nailed my first row along the wall, which ends at a wood stove. Now that I am past the wood stove, the row is 4 feet longer, and I think I should face nail the first row along that 4 feet beside the wood stove. But it is in a very visible spot, and I don't want to. Can I avoid face nailing that 4 feet? I am worried about stapling, as I fear it will bend the board toward the wood stove with nothing behind it but an expansion gap. I am thinking about blind nailing by hand every 4". If I staple my next row, will it push that blind-nailed 4 feet?

I wish I could buy you guys a beer (Canadian, of course) ...

Doug.

Blind nail that part, but before you do insert some wedge type spacers so that board does not move/flex. Continue out several rows before you remove the spacers.

You could drive in some nails along a chalk line as a temporary backstop if that edge is not going to be exposed. The edge could get some damage doing it this way.

I love my Crain adjustable spacers, for just that deal.

I was in a hurry last night, and was hasty in my post. When I laid the slate under the wood stove a couple weeks back, I put in some aluminum edging (called Schluter in these parts) that hangs out to cover my expansion gap, so I didn't have access to the edge of the wood to put wedges or nails in. I did manage to slide a wedge in horizontally from the end. My 4 feet was covered by the last 3 feet of a 6 foot board and a 1 footer to end the row. The 6 footer was fine, and with care, I only got a wee bend in the 1 footer that just opened the crack a bit for a few inches. Not too bad.

I am having more troubles with my nailer. It is a Ramsond nailer that shoots 16 gauge cleats and 15.5 or 16 gauge staples. I had no troubles with the bigger staples, but I am getting two staples coming out at once about once in every 75 hits with my Bostitch 16 gauge 1.5" staples. It makes quite a mess and is a pain in the arse. I can't seem to find anybody else reporting such a problem on this board. Defect with my nailer? Anything I can do to minimize the problem?

Toque,

Woven Stranded bamboo is made of GLUE and CRAP left over from manufacturing flooring, furniture and other products.
This stuff is a bit tender and the splitting may not be your fault.

Try dropping a plank on some hard concrete and see if it splits... I know this sounds crazy but i've been witness to a bamboo expert use this method as his "field test" for quality...

If somebody were to ask me if I thought woven stranded bamboo would make for a better glue down or better nail down product;;; my answer would be: either glue it down or don't install it....
I've heard of many installers refusing to install it.

Bye the way;; your first picture shows a void area between the tongue and the plank surface........... this is not good.

Sounds like it's your gun... try the one Gary suggested.

Ray said:

Ray, since I'm installing ~900 ft**2 of the stuff in my place, thanks for breaking it to me softly I suspected that that might be true to some extent, but didn't know. But that in itself doesn't bother me - if something that would have otherwise ended up in the landfill can make a beautiful and durable floor for me, then I figure that is great.

Now, you can see the woven strips the stuff is made from, and typically you can follow them for most, if not all, of the 6 foot length of the boards, so this certainly isn't bamboo's answer to OSB or particleboard. And I love the way it looks, and it sure is damn hard.



Out of curiosity, I tried your test. I used a 6 foot length I had previously plugged absolutely full of cleats and then pried off a 2x6 with a wrecking bar, so it was somewhat distressed already. I dropped it from ~4 feet onto a cement floor. It bounced but other than dings where it hit the ground, it didn't suffer overly - no cracking or splitting.

Now that I am down to 16 gauge 1.5" staples, and my pressure is down to 70 psi, I'm not having too much trouble with splitting anymore. A lot of user error mixed in here. And I think my manufacturers recommended fastening procedure is flawed.

Since I dropped down to 70 psi, I haven't had a single double shot of staples. But I seem to be hitting screw heads in my new underlay at about the frequency I was getting double staples. Could the hitting of a screw cause a second staple to be fired?