After finishing up several remodeling projects, I just had my kitchen oak floor refinished and 550s/f of carpet in the living room torn out and had oak hardwood installed there. The company i used is praised all over town for their work and the crew of two that worked on my floor included their top guy with decades of experience. There shouldn't have been any problem. Unfortunately all the areas that were sanded with their Galaxy belt sander have chatter. This didn't show up until the finish was applied and dried (satin polyurethane). Some facts on the house and materials: 3/4" solid hardwood used, house built in 1985 with 3/4" plywood floorboards. I first spoke with the company owner who said whatever needs to be done he'll do it, if I want to have it resanded/refinshed now or later for free or he would give me some money back and keep it as is. I want a better floor.

So I had the two guys who worked on it out today to look at it, and they were really downplaying the issue. The company's 'top guy' tells me the chatter will get better in a couple months as the finish "settles down". Not sure im buying that. My concern was the machine might have been broken somehow, but he claims no chatter on the job they're working on now using the same machine. So I don't know what to think or do at this point. It's certainly pretty annoying to look at particularly where the light hits it. Only the parts of the floor approx 2 feet from the walls where they used smaller sanding machines look chatter mark free.

I would really appreciate any advice you guys can give me. I have certainly read enough stories on the net here in my brief searches about a second sanding attempt making the problem even worse. In my case no one can even agree on what caused the chatter. Help!

They think the chatter is o.k.? They say it will go away ? But they're willing to re-sand the floor?
Sorry I'm just completely confused by these comments. Why would you take the chance of these guys re-sanding your floor? Hardwood Floors can only be sanded so many times. Has the owner of the store seen it?

Sorry for the confusion. The owner hasn't seen it, I only spoke with him on the phone. He made those offers to me, then sent over the guys who did the job to inspect it. These guys are the ones who say it will go away.

Sounds to me like your really taking a risk of chatter again, if these guys re-sand. I'm suprised the owner, or his forman didn't come out to your home. He just went ahead and offered compensation or a re-sand without taking a look at it? Something's fishy here....

Yep, the whole thing gives me a bad feeling. I will ask the owner to come out and take a look himself. From my understanding though, he doesn't do any of this work himself. I already had his best crew do my initial job that left chatter, so I don't know where im going with these guys from here. My best option might be to see what compensation he'll offer and then use it towards paying another company to resand? Problem is when I say this company is extremely well regarded in my area im not kidding. I won't be able to find someone that comes as well recommended as the company I used. And now that the floor has issues and requires special techniques (sand at 45° to kill chatter?) it basically makes recommendations from folks who just had standard refinishing jobs useless. I need people talented enough to fix this but have no idea where to find them. What a mess

donht panic..any qualified refinisher can fix it...and even the guys who did it can fix it..

galaxy is a good macine..
many things can cause chatter,

paper, bearings, loose belt,staple in drum.... if they find why they left it...they can fix it no problem..

the floor will not have to be sanded on a 45..chatters are very minimal in deviation... a standard cut will remove them..

galaxys usually are 2 in q machines..if used it as a regualar drum sander,,this may have done it as the paper is cheaper than belts,...

the cut in the paper can cause it...

something stuck in the wheel can do it to....or..build up of filler on them..happeens all the time..clean wheels..no more chatter

As mentioned, the chatter definitely will not lessen in any way over time.it's there to stay .So If your flooring professional told you that, I'd be very worried. And on a personal note, I worked 13 years for a so called professional that did not maintain his machines properly and made similar false promises to customers.

Your floor must be re sanded and I suggest not using the same machine that created the chatter in the first place. The chatter will in fact get worse. Your contractor should get his machine taken care of by a professional and then learn how to maintain it properly and it wont create chatter in the first place.

Some tips were given to you about proper sanding technique. For instance, the next sanding should start with a 45 degree rough cut .This will cut across the chatter rather than follow it. But it must be done with a good machine. One that is already not causing chatter.

After all the machining is done. The floor gets buffed with usually a 100 or 120 grit screen disc. IF there is any chatter left, it will show up for sure as the buffer will only hit the high spots and leave the low valleys mostly untouched. If there is any chatter left, the floor usually needs to be hit with the buffer and a hard plate that has sand paper discs on it. This will eventually knock down the high spots. until the floor is flat.

Thanks for the help. My understanding is the chatter will only be visible after the polyurethane finish is applied, correct? If that's the case should they just go ahead and hit it with a hard plate just to be sure they got all the chatter out?

Another question for you guys. The kitchen and foyer hardwood that was existing but refinished connects to the living room that was a hardwood install and sand/finish. The kitchen isn't as bad for the most part. It has to be mainly because they didn't use the big galaxy sander for large portions of the floor, but rather smaller hand machines. Is it possible for a contractor to refinish the living room up to where the foyer floor begins and have it look good, or will the polyurethane just not be able to applied in a way to blend in (or maybe other problems im not thinking of)? My concern is the original floor has at least two sandings in it already, the initial when it was installed in 1985, and the one I just did. I don't think it was refinished by the previous two owners but im not sure. Since I could live with it, i'd rather not resand it yet again if not absolutely necessary.

Again, thanks for all the info and advice!

cutting a floor on a 45 is a technique to correct WAVES and roll/drum marks...not chatter..

the same machine can fix the problem once the source of chatter is corrected.

a chatter doesn't cause low spots..it causes high spots...the machine doesnt cut any lower, it just bounces off leaving a very minimal high spot..so minimal, it can not be felt...


as a professional, it is important to advise HO's correctly..instead of spooking her..chatters are nothing that can not be fixed..easily..and have happened to most all of is at some point...

too much dust build up,
filler on wheels
staple in drum or wheels,..these are all things that happen and no one is superman...shit happens..it doesn't lessen the man.

the bull after the fact is the problem..it will not disappear..but to suggest the floor needs extensive work is plain false.
a standard cut will fix it..hell..i bet 1 fine cut from a good machine will fix it;)

anyone taking odds?

to chinaski...

chatter marks will be seen after the floor is buffed....the poly just enhances them more...but if the floor were to be recoated again, you may see a huge difference..the higher build will begin to mask them..virtually non visible..

just a suggestion

I'm not a sand guy......but seems like I do hear alot about guys battleing chatter, here and there. The difference has been... they catch it before coating. My question is.....Isn't this something that a sand guy should be looking out for, and able to see, before coating.

Paul made a point that makes sense to me...
"After all the machining is done. The floor gets buffed with usually a 100 or 120 grit screen disc. IF there is any chatter left, it will show up for sure as the buffer will only hit the high spots and leave the low valleys mostly untouched."
Like I said...I'm not a sander, but this makes common sense to me. Plus, there's been a lot of cases, while installing unfinished, that I've culled planks or strip with chatter,( not drum marks), and easily visable.

yes..u can see the chatter marks after the floor is buffed...

higher builds of poly will hide them...

Howard you are correct you can see the chatter before the finish goes down and at that point you almost done so why not give it another buff, hardplate, trio or whatever it takes to do it right instead of doing it over after finish.
As far as hiding the chatter with more poly I am not sure I could ever get it that thick, but I've been wrong before.

Hey Mickey,

your right..why not fix it?...but that how many roll out there..take chances...

as for me..i,ve never been wrong...=)

and yes, the thicker the build of poly, it will mask,although not entirely the effect...

Most homeowners may not be able to see chatter easily if their eye isn't used to spotting it but I can see it on an unfinished floor simply by getting down low and looking across it. Chatter becomes much more evident once you try to buff the floor though and of course , more evident once the second coat of finish is put on

As far as blending the sanding of the floors the way you are describing , it can be done but there should be a natural break off point .A natural break off point would be a long board where the sanding stops on the long joint .that can be blended in nicely.But if you stop sanding against the grain (direction the floor is laid in) you will have an obvious marcation line.

If I ever have to blend in a floor where the blend happens across the direction of the floor, I'll typically sand out entire boards all the way to the butt joint rather than make a straight line going across the floor. This is really the only way to hide a blend going perpendicular to the direction of the floor.

Excuse my lousy cell phone pic-- this is where I would want to separate the resand. The foyer and kitchen were done at a 45° when the house was built. The part I had them install into the dining room/living room is straight. Any possibility of them pulling that off and looking ok?

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/9081/03211122511.jpg