Started looking into the apprenticeship programs for floorcovering, Don't know how easy or hard it would be to get in or even if it's worth it. It's a 4 year program. Been doing hardwood for 8 years, some tile, but that's it. Anyone have any thoughts about it. I'm calling tomorrow to see if I can get more info.
SD

I can only speak about how the union works here in N. CA. It is a "division" of the carpenters union, sorta of. They have their own local and reps and it's called something else now. All but a very few shops now are non union except in SF. The union shops have very specific rules and guidelines. They make a good hourly wage here but expect high production. As I see it, instead of going to school, just get a job in a union shop. Try to get some credit for previous work experience toward becoming a journeyman, and where the money is. Union jobs are a boon for many people, I'll not knock it. Not everyone is cut out to be their own boss.

As I see it, there is nothing to gain at all for you, but everything for the union, if you join. They get your dues. That's it.

With 8 years experience, you don't need an apprentice program. You're already a pro.

You can learn all you need to know from the various manufacturers literature, trade associations and publications "National Flooring Trends"; etc.

If you're self employed, and know what you're doing, your probably better than any union guy.

My opinion.

[quote="Kinsman Tile Guy"]As I see it, there is nothing to gain at all for you, but everything for the union, if you join. They get your dues. That's it.

With 8 years experience, you don't need an apprentice program. You're already a pro.

You can learn all you need to know from the various manufacturers literature, trade associations and publications "National Flooring Trends"; etc.

If you're self employed, and know what you're doing, your probably better than any union guy.
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I must disagree, even though I'm no longer a union member I was a journeyman carpenter out of Local 1506 in so ca. Yes they do get your dues of $20.00 month, and from that we received free medical/ dental/ eye care/ all paid for, vacation account equal to $2.00/ hr for every hour worked paid every 6 months. Our production rates and quality of work installed was much higher than the same work done via non- union in my opinion. better trained I believe also. The wages when I got out to go out on my own 7 years ago were north of $30.00/ Hr. and I worked 2000 hrs a year. and have a pension when I retire in 20 years of $1,200/ month. that is only with 5 years in the union. Don't forget the raies every 6 months or so as part of the 4 year apprenticeship program.
I know you can make more on your own but the medical cost come into play. Have you priced out medical insurance.

Do I think the Unions have outlived their usefulness ABSOLUTELY! But I liked the benefits of of being a member.

Michael

Here in Il 75% of the flooring union (hardwood portion) are laid off from nov-dec until april every year. I debaited joining a long time ago, with experience you dont need to do the apprentership program. You can just buy your union card for 500. They do expect high output from you, and do have a good hourly wage, but the layoffs I couldnt handle.

I don't think they have outlived their usefulness as much as they've been thrown out by builders looking for cheaper. That's the case here in N.CA. Union shops could not compete price wise with non-union shops which paid no benefits and had lower wages. I'd wish it were the law that every shop had to be union. Or at least pay the same. It would make it a level playing field. As it is, there are illegal businesses that pay no benefits, don't withhold for SS or unemployment, don't pay overtime, don't have worker's comp and hire illegal immigrants. How can a legitimate union shop compete against that? The unions died because that's what the builders wanted. CHEAP LABOR, mostly from Mexico. Go to any subdivision now and you would be hard pressed to find anyone other than immigrants working there. This is wrong and we have the federal government to blame for not protecting our borders. I have nothing against any race. I just want American jobs to go to Americans, regardless of their race.

Gary I couldn't agree more. I'm 90 miles north of the border and WE NEED THE FENCE.

Michael

I like the benefit of looking in the mirror and asking the boss if it's ok to go elk hunting today ... he's pretty friendly and says it's fine with him as long as it's ok if he sleeps with the secretary while I'm out.....

I'm just sayin.

[quote="Gary] I'd wish it were the law that every shop had to be union. Or at least pay the same. It would make it a level playing field. As it is, there are illegal businesses that pay no benefits, don't withhold for SS or unemployment, don't pay overtime, don't have worker's comp and hire illegal immigrants. How can a legitimate union shop compete against that? [/quote]

Hell, I just wish Ahhhnold would cowboy up and ENFORCE the existing law and start air freighting illeagals back home and slap the taste out of the mout of those that would hire 'em.
I can't blame anyone for wanting freedom .... EARN IT. Don't STEAL it.

Many cities and states believe this is a federal issue. And they're right. Although some communities have started enforcing local ordinances against loitering and vagrancy, others have done the opposite and made their communities safe havens. I can't figure it out. Protecting national borders is a federal responsibility that the feds have not had the fortitude to do. It's one area, among others, that George W. has fallen down on, IMO. As I said, I have no problems with any race or culture (except Islamic fascist murders). I am good friends with folks from different backgrounds, races and cultures and respect them very much. I just want American jobs going to Americans, that's all. The construction trades were well thought of at one time. One could earn a fairly good living and have a chance at the American dream. Do you realize wages for construction have not changed in about 30 years? In the 70's union carpenters earned approx. $20.00 per hour plus benefits that would add about another 8 to 10 bucks an hour to that wage. Now, the same job pays about $18.00 to $20.00 an hour with no benefits. Why is that? IMO, it is because NAHB wanted to keep larger profits and they have major access to lawmakers, similar to insurance and pharmaceutical companies. There are a few areas where the construction union trades have remained strong, such as government projects like bridges, roads, dams, government buildings and industrial manufacturing facilities (refineries and the like). But in residential housing, there are few, if any, union jobs to be found. What was once a good and decent trade (carpentry, roofing, flooring, electrical, plumbing) has gone the way of the dodo in residential housing. It's a sad thing.

one day a subcontractor stopped by a new construction site, while a few of us subcontractors were taking a break, he was asking us some questions about the general contractor. Then he mentioned he was going to do some work on the house later that week and that he had a few Mexicans working for him "matter of factly". we all just stood there and finished with a little small talk and that ended the conversation. Later that day the more i thought about it the more ticked off at myself i became. And i was ticked off at the rest of the subs also. We gave that guy a free pass. Next time something like that happens i am going to speak up and tell him that he needs to either get rid of his illegal workers or go somewhere else. WE HAVE GOT TO STOP LETTING THE ILLEGAL EMPLOYERS SLIDE BY WHILE WE SIT THERE AND WATCH THEM TAKE AWAY OUR WORK. We are going to have to stand up and let them know that we do not approve of it. Sure that probably will not stop them at first but if enough people keep getting in their faces they might start to get the message.