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 Post subject: Can solid hickory flooring delaminate?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:05 am 
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Had solid hickory put down in house December (delivered unfinished wood sat for about 3 weeks in house to acclimate). The house was undergoing massive renovations and we were not living there at the time but the temperature was kept at the temperature and moisture they advised us to untiil time of instillation. The company did a neutral stain and sealed it. The trouble became noticed over a week ago. One board at top of small set of stairs started to pop up on one end. Over a period of a few days, it appeared to us that a top "layer" started to pop off and has progressed down the length of the board. I have never seen solid hardwood do this but I have never had hickory put in, only oak or maple. We had this done by an outside company becuase of our time constraint. My partner has installed prefinished oak and maple for years and not come across this. He initially thought a nail in the subfloor was pushing the piece up until it the separation shot down the length. The owner of the flooring company came out and said that it was "delaminating" but couldn't explain why solid hardwood would do this in an area that didn't receive moisture. All the boards surrounding this seem sound so far. He advised us to call him in a couple of weeks to see if it "layed down". I have become suspicious that some engineered product was swapped out at time of installation. Am I being paranoid, does hickory separate in the width & down the length under certain circumstances?


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 Post subject: Re: Can solid hickory flooring delaminate?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:06 pm 
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Well, not likely.
How about a couple pics in case your description is misleading.
Solid wood is not laminated, so "de-laminating" does not sound accurate to me.
I suppose that if the growth rings of the plank were exactly horizontal to the plane of the board, there could be the slightest potential that the structure of the wood could fracture and separate in what would appear to be a layer of wood along the length of the board. Boy, im grasping at straws here.

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 Post subject: Re: Can solid hickory flooring delaminate?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:56 pm 
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Good grasp, Dennis. That would be windshake, and it sounds like that's what she has happening. It can happen in any species, not just hickory. It's not due to moisture, it's a separation between the growth rings, a structural deficiency in that section of the tree. It's not going to lay back down on its own either.

Windshake is generally not acceptable in any grade of wood, and most prefinished manufacturer's will cover a board replacement for their products. Unfinished material? I'm not sure; I don't deal much with unfinished product. I guess it would depend on who you purchased the wood through.

You can try to glue it back down, but that's usually more effective for windshake that occurs on an edge bevel. With it being right on the surface, and sounding as large as it is, I would recommend replacing the board.


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 Post subject: Re: Can solid hickory flooring delaminate?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2009 8:43 am 
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Thank you very much for your quick insights. Took a few shots last night - I put them under the users gallery "Julie Jay". Hopefully these are usefull - obviously, photography isn't my forte!


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 Post subject: Re: Can solid hickory flooring delaminate?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:30 am 
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Post pictures in the forum subsection called "Upload your photos here" There are directions on how to do so.


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 Post subject: Re: Can solid hickory flooring delaminate?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:48 am 
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Here are the photos Julie uploaded
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Can solid hickory flooring delaminate?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:43 am 
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I think you nailed it BW.
I have never encountered that, but from the roughness of the bottom of the lifting section, it looks like a structural defect in a solid piece. Thing is, it also looks like the board is under compression; how odd given the poster's statement about proper moisture conditions.

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 Post subject: Re: Can solid hickory flooring delaminate?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:56 am 
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Sure looks like a veneer to me. The buckled area is very even and looks to be about 1/8 inch thick.

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 Post subject: Re: Can solid hickory flooring delaminate?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:02 am 
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That is quite unusual looking. At first glance, I would swear it was an engineered product with delam. Julie, are you certain this is a solid? Could it be engineered with a sawn (solid) face? If it is truly a solid, I wouldn't describe that as windshake then; windshake looks more like splintering that pulls away...I would wonder if there's some honeycombing or other issue related to the actual kiln drying. Either way, I definitely wouldn't plan on that laying down or being able to glue it with that degree of separation. Do a plank replacement and be done with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Can solid hickory flooring delaminate?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:38 am 
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But doesn't the bottom of that top piece look too rough to be a veneer? I am at a loss with this one.
I too think it looks a lot like an engineered veneer type product but cant imagine a flooring contractor "sneaking" it into a solid installation.

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 Post subject: Re: Can solid hickory flooring delaminate?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:48 am 
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Well what I saw delivered was solid, what actually went down when I wasn't there is another matter. Darn thing does look like a veneer though.

I agree, it would be very weird for them to have switched out product during the job and I so hope that isn't the issue. The only definitive way is to be there when they replace it and get my hands on it. How much more of a hassle obtaining that end is another matter.

Once I get I'll "show" it to you all and get some solid answers. Hopefully it is a really one in a million unique occurences and I'm not getting jerked around.

Thank you all once again!!! (Sorry for the download issues to).


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 Post subject: Re: Can solid hickory flooring delaminate?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:58 pm 
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If you have a forced air heating/cooling system with floor mounted vents, you could pull a cover off and inspect the cut edges of the floor around the hole.

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 Post subject: Re: Can solid hickory flooring delaminate?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:11 pm 
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At first glance (and the second, third and fourth) I would say you have an engineered floor. But as the other poster suggested, I would take a look at the vent area to be sure. One way or the other, the board has to be replaced. Now, if you find out that it is engineered then one of two things probably happened. There was a miscommunication with you and the installer and you thought a solid product was brouhgt to your house when infact an engineered product was. In this case, I would have a sit down with the installer to sort some things out. There is always the possibility that you had a fast one pulled on you, and in that case you should have a new floor comming to you or some serious rebate at least. An 1/8" veneer engineered floor will get one sanding in it lifetime where a solid hickory will get many more. To make a long story short, make sure you didnt get hosed.


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 Post subject: Re: Can solid hickory flooring delaminate?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:25 am 
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Cant make much from the photo but, it looks like buckling to me. Hickory moves like no other specie I know of and compound that with a 5" plank look out. also you had the floor put in in the middle of the heating season and acclimated it to that r/h and temp conditions, bad idea for solid hickory. Surprised you havent had problems sooner but this year has been a nightmare for cupped floors due to the massive amount of rain we ahve had this year compared to the last two or three. Do this, measure a set of 20 boards and see what you get if its over 100 (if it is 5" btw) then your floor is growing because it has a higher moisture content than when it was installed. Its the home owners responsability to keep enviromental conditions in check.

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