Greetings to the forum
I have ordered this flooring,
Schön Engineered 3/8" x 3" Gunstock Oak
http://www.lumberliquidators.com/catalo ... uctId=1657

The website says glue, float, or nail. I was planning on nailing or stapling. I went to home depot tool rental and they said that the staples from a cleat stapler would split 3/8". So now I am a bit stuck and wondering if I should use crown staples or a cleat nailer, the size of nails/staples and such. I also could hand nail with old square nails, as the area is not large. I can't seem to find manufacturers specs or installation recommendations. If someone could recommend the proper fastener and tool, that would be a big help.

Any suggestions or information would be greatly appreciated,

LMHmedchem

Ruffles my feathers to do LL's job. But happy to help you.

http://www.amazon.com/Bostitch-LHF97125 ... B0009XILH2

Thanks allot for the info. I have an email into LL, but who knows when they will respond. What staples would your recommend to use with the Bostitch LHF97125-2?

LMHmedchem

Rule of thumb is to go with at least twice the thickness of the wood. But I would wait to hear from LL, or call one of their stores. They should be able to tell you their installation requirements. They are the source of warranty.

That being said...I recommend 1"-1 1/4", and installed over 15 lb. saturated felt (roofing paper), not their red rosen paper.

Thanks. When I talked to someone in the store, they said to staple, but they were not specific about the type. When I went to home depot to rent, they thought a staple would cause splits. Obviously there are many kinds of staples and staple guns, but they didn't seem too knowledgeable. I am still waiting for the store to call about the shipment coming in. When I go to pick it up I will see if they can recommend a place to rent a Laminated Hardwood Flooring Stapler. It seems like I should go with a 3/4" staple. Since the subfloor is luon over pine planking, does that make a difference? I would guess I would want the staple well into the pine, so maybe 1" would be better?

I missed this edit,
What is the difference using roofing felt?

LMHmedchem

The staple guns or "floor runners" are designed to staple down up to 1/2" thickness hardwoods. They shoot a 20 or 18 gauge staple, depending on the gun. The one's at HD shoot 16 ga., mainly for 3/4 thickness.

You definetely will want to sink the fastener well paste the luan into the pine. I would go with 1 3/16" length fastener, for extra grab.

ASTM Standard 15 pound saturated felt is specified by NWFA under nail down installations. It provides a certain amount of protection against moisture migration, has properties to prevent possible creaking or squeeking down the road, user friendly to install over. Red Rosen is none of these, infact IMO, nothing more than a cover paper, to protect the floor when it's finished.

Thanks allot, this is a big help. I will look for a floor runner that takes 18 or 20 gauge 1 3/16" staples. Do you think I will be able to rent something like that? I would guess I should use 20 gauge, is that going to matter?

I will get some felt. I was going to get some rosin just so I would have something clean to snap lines on. Do you overlap the felt at all, or would that cause an uneven floor? I am also planning on leaving 1/4" at the edge (under the baseboard) for expansion, it that enough?

If I can't find a floor runner, would it be possible to use a crown stapler, even though I would have to manage the angle manually?
http://www.amazon.com/Factory-Reconditi ... pd_cp_hi_2

LMHmedchem

The 18 ga is most likely going to be to big for the 3/8. Get the LHF model like Howard suggested and on Amazon, plus order the 1 3/16 staples as well. Those are narrow crown staples. And there is no such thing as a cleat stapler, its one or the other....cleat or staple.

If it were me I would yank the luan and put down some half inch cdx plywood.



That stapler you linked to is going to be hard to hit the sweet spot unless you do some serious modifications. And like I said before it is to big. Stick with 20ga

Lines snap clean on felt. Throw a few staples down in the felt first, so it doesn't move. Don't overlap the seams.

Rule of thumb for expansion is "the thickness of the wood", so you should leave 3/8". Personally IMO 1/4 is sufficient, (for an engineered product). But do it by the book.

Is this the right kind of stapler,
http://cgi.ebay.com/Bynford-Hardwood-Fl ... ltDomain_0

It says it takes Bostitch SB97-1G or SB97-1GLS. These are 1" staples and may be too short.

LMHmedchem

Dude, not to be blunt but how would you like to tear up your floor because you cheap'd out ona quality tool? Not to say Bostitch is best but that one is a POS. One inch is too small. And tear out that Luan!!!

I don't see any reason not to go over the Luan. As long as the substrate is flat, the Luan is solid,(which the staples will add too), and the fasteners are sinking well into the t&g Pine. If it's loose,(ofcoarse you could fasten it), out of spec for flatness, and or has hollow spots, I would rip it up and sheet it with 1/2 ply.

On of the issues for me is that I am putting in like 60sq/ft and I really don't want to pay $250-$300 for a stapler to put in $150 of flooring. This is just a small back hallway that leads into my office. If I can get a good used or refurb model for $100 or less, I would do that, since rental is not going to be free, but you are very right that I don't want, or like, cheap tools.

I am afraid that someone glued down the Luan with construction adhesive. At lease I don't see any nail heads or staples and something is holding it down. On the other hand, the Luan is in good shape and whoever put it down sanded up the seams with a leveling compound. I also am very tight with height because of a door threshold that is well into the structure. If I go with a thicker sub-floor, that may become an issue. I would rather not have to cut out the threshold, or do something odd, like run a reducer into it somehow.

I got an email back from LL and they said I could use either a Powernail MODELS 200P & 250M with a size.035 cleat nail, or a stapler and posted these links,
SCHON engineered instructions http://server.iad.liveperson.net/hc/s-1 ... 061905411X
Schon QuickClic engineered specifications http://server.iad.liveperson.net/hc/s-1 ... 061905411X

This is the link to rentals that they sent,
http://www.powernail.com/rentals/index.htm

I can rent a 20 gage e-cleat nailer with 1 1/4" nails. Would that work, or should I keep looking for a 20 gage stapler?

LMHmedchem

I hear ya on the tool price, that one will work if you change it up a bit. I'm sure you can figure it out. The luan is...well it is what it is then...do it.

Why are you showing click install specs? I have done some other engineered where the manufacturer spec'd 1 inch staples. I thought thats way to short but it has worked/

Do you mean that the 20 gauge nailer will work? I bid on a Bostitch 20 gauge floor stapler on ebay, but I didn't win it. I guess with the nailer you have to adjust the air pressure and settings so that it doesn't set the cleat too deep and such.

I just posted the links the LL sent. I am not sure why they send click specs along with the glue and nail. Apparently the floor can be floated, but I would be surprised if it had locking tung and grove of some kind.

It seems like the Bostitch LHF97125 can only use 1" staples. Is that correct, or am I reading that wrong. There are a few floating around on ebay and can still probably get one for a reasonable amount, but I don't want to if they only use 1" and you think that is not high enough.

LMHmedchem