I am building a new house. My buider installed approx 2500 Sf of engineered hardwood in my home last week. I'm very concerned because they appeared to have violated the manufacturer's requirements for the workplace environment for the install. Here's the scenario:

- the engineered hardwood is River Ridge Frio - Southern Traditions - manufacturer is Stuxtur http://www.southerntraditionsfloors.com ... oring.aspx

- the installation instructions specify that the installation requires a steady state environment at 60 to 75 degrees and 30% to 50% humity, with HVAC operational.

- the glue manufacturer (Dritac) also specifies these conditions.

- The house must also be sealed, with all masonry, windows complete, etc.

- The actual conditions - open house, masonry not compete, no HVAC, night time temperatures 25 to 35, daytime temps 35 to 50.

- installation guidelines requre that acclimation should be until wood and slab are stable moisture.

- There was no acclimation - wood delivered and installed on same day.

- It has rained since the install - windows in the house are open.

My concern - these installation and ongoing conditions definitely violate the required temp ranges. No idea if humidity was checked before installation, but I do know the install was the same day, so I have my suspisions.

The builder is insisting that because this is engineered hardwood, there are no requirements for acclimation or temp control. This obviously is different than the manufacturer's specs. In discussions with the manufacturer, they point me to their online instructions and warranty.

Bottom line question - should I be concerned about potential short or longer term issues with this installation?

Thanks

LOL - sorry for the "is this be" - should have been "will this be"

Well all you can do at this point is get it in writing that the floor was installed out of manufactures speck and has voided the manufactures warranty and you now want the builder to warrant the floor for the next 20 years not just your typical 1 year builder warranty. Why in the world do you think it has specific guidelines and requirements? Is there a possibility that the floor will be problem free? Yes. Is there a chance you could have a major issue? Yes. Its up in the air right now, could be fine, could be a total failure, could be just minor issues. Bottom line the builder has just took 100% liability by installing it out of speck. Id just take pictures, document conversations and timelines you may need it at some point.

Thanks Kevin.. definitely know the manufacturer has the requirements for a reason.. so I guess I'm trying to get a sense of the real-world odds of a problem.. and that's probably very hard to predict - as you said, could be nothing - or could be huge problem... and I get the sense that the problem from this install is not likely to show up immediately, but over time.

The builder won't extend their warranty - no doubt about that..

So now it's a matter of playing the odds:
- I can walk from the house - and fight over my 3% down payment
- I can buy the house and worry about problems..and potentially have major issues later.

If I walk, my argument for refund is that they violated install requirements - and it's going to be cheaper to give me my money back as opposed to ripping out floors and re-installing properly.

Anyone have any opinion on the validity of my argument for refund?

I went through a similar situation when we bought our new house, although it wasn't with a hardwood floor. There were several systems that were questionable and over the years I have had to pay to correct and deal with them. I wanted to have an inspection done but the builder kind of talked me out of it......my mistake. The builder can promise you anything but what if he goes under? One of the things my builder did on call-backs was do a quick-and-dirty bubble-gum and band-aid fix......I got real tired of that and finally bit the bullet and brought in reliable people. You don't say what your relationship is with the builder or what he's like to deal with. I would contact a lawyer that deals with contracts to get professional advice. It will cost some money but will also give you some peace-of-mind. IF the floor goes bad you're going to be kicking yourself.

Jimmiem,

The builder is Ryland - fairly large somewhat national builder who I don't think is going away.. but I am extremely concerned about quality - the hardwood is one of numerous issues - missing windows - wrong mortar used with bricks - wrong cabinets installed - wrong backsplash - wrong shower - pretty much anything they could screw up, they have. Plus I'm sure a large number of items I'm not aware of.

I've reached my threshold - and now looking for the out that will enable me to get my $15K deposit back. They are taking a very firm stance that they did nothing wrong in this floor install, even though the manufacturer requires specific conditions for temp/humidity for install.

I'm not willing to roll the dice that there will or will not be problems. It's probably more of a legal discussion, but wondering if lack of following the hardwood install procedures could be considered enough legally to get out of the contract. Ultimately, the choice should be replace the floors and replace the brick and mortar to be what's in the contract - or let me out of the contract - but I'm sure they are going to fight like crazy on that.

those are all concerns and questions for your attorney.

you should have one considering it a home purchase/build.

if there is going to be problems with the floor you will see it in the next couple months especially after heating goes in..

you could hire an independent inspector to do an investigation on the floor.

don't know if that will help you out of your contract and get your deposit back

just google NWFA certified floor inspector..it will take you to their site and tyou can research one in your area.

its not free but may give your attorney the tools he needs to help you.

my better sense tells me your stuck.

no judge will award fear of problems..only actual problems,,so unless that floor fails your fears mean nothing

A contract is there to protect you both. If all your choices were clearly laid out and they are putting the wrong stuff in there I dont see how they have any choice but to either fix there mistakes or refund your money. As much as I hate attorneys I think that's who you need to be taking to.

They are quite a large company. Even before the lawyer what about going up the chain of command within the company. This might be a good first step and you might get things resolved quickly. I saw the web site warranty info and based on what it says I'd get resolution sooner rather than later. Also, being a publicly held company the state attorney general consumer protection might be in a position to help. Buy a share of Ryland stock....that way you're not just a customer.

You might even want to check to see how long the slab had been poured. If they are pulling that then they might even be laying over a green slab.

I would be surprised if you don't have problems. You may even get the glue manufacture involved as well it might help you with you case.

I am an NWFA Inspector and it is most likely that if the outside temp and RH were high and all wet work was not completed the wood will have absorbed any excess rh later in the winter heating season heating cold air can result in high relative humidity which will result in high moisture content with will create gaps. With engineered wood the longer boards will have the large gaps as engineered expands and contracts equally as compared to solid wood which expands more in the width. There also should have taken moisture content readings of the subfloor and wood and if within 2% you are good to go. Wood is mfg typically 6% to 9% moisture content. If you install it too dry then it is possible it can actually release from the subfloor. Go to http://www.woodfloors.org and select an inspector in your area who will give you a report based on scientific measurements which you then take to court if it comes to that. Most builders are not going to let you out as easily as you may think. Get the inspectors report then see a lawyer. It may be that the measurements taken will show you don't have anything to worry about. Engineered wood is 95% more stable than solid wood BUT can fail if it falls outside the parameters the mfg requires. Utilizing a moisture meter with insulating pins the inspector can evaluate the mc of the top of the board, bottom of the board and mc of the subfloor, which may require the removal of one board, to get to the concrete subfloor I forget if it is concrete or plywood, if plywood he can drive the pins into that. The plywood no more than 12%, concrete no more than 4 1/2% mc or depending on type of meter 75% RH. There should be no more than 1% difference between the top of the board and the bottom of the board.
See on my website links NWFA GUIDELINES SECTION 1 PAGE 10 FOR CHART DEVELOPED BY WOOD SCIENTISTS REGARDING THE ABOVE.

Thanks Jim,

The temperature was actually cold (25 degrees F at night, 45 during the day) with rain when they installed the hardwood, which is against both the hardwood and glue requirements. The house still remains open - masonry is not complete and no HVAC running.

Have not been able to determine if any moisture content tests on the hardwood or the concrete slab were completed before the install, but my bet is that they were not. I do know for sure that delivery and installation were on the same day, and the crew laid approx 2000 SF of floor that day, so my sense is it was an immediate installation - and with the crew standing by, they didn't test.