Have some questions if you guy have any experience with BUFFER Swirls on your refinish jobs. If your in the industry right know you are staining a lot of your jobs and the stain is dark. I want to do my work to the best of my ability and do not want to say to my clients " Ya that is the way it is." Im sure that there is some way that this can be done with out swirls in the floor, I wish I could attach a pic I have but don't understand how to. (let me know if you do)

The jobs I most often do is a red oak dark stain in dark walnut (Bona) or Jacobean, I sand to the 80 cut with my machines and then buff with a 100 screen. I have been dulling the sharpness of the screen but has not been working. As you guys know buffing is super important on a stain job to achieve an even color. I don't want to use a 120 cuz it closes the wood grain and then you cant achieve the color the client wants. Then there is water popping but the look of it is not the best, so when I can avoid it I do. If you have any techniques or tricks up your sleeves it would be a blessing.


Tks for your input
GOD bless
Asher Flooring

Asher Flooring; there is a great amount of confusion when it come to how to best prepare a floor for a stain. We all want the best, but the simplest procedure too.

In my opinion the sanding machine is the Most Important decision. Then 2nd to this would be the type of sanding abrasive / size of grit.

When sanding a fine piece of furniture Nobody would consider a ROTARY sanding machine. The size of grit must be smaller to compensate for the sanding action.

Then machine of choice then becomes,orbital, or random orbit. Random orbit being the most aggressive and most applicable to floor finishing.

My choice for this machine has been, the UFO by US Sander. It is best described as a True dual action sander. It's design includes a planetary gear, that maintains the rotary speed while. Four eccentric shafts give you 1/4 " oscillating action.

Both of the describe sanding actions happen consistently, hence, You are able to use a more aggressive ( larger grit) screen. The grit pattern is so consistent, it is not easily seen.

I have stained floors finishing with a 60 gr. screen. One of the secrets to this successful procedure is a good vacuum.

I rarely do a water pop, I dislike the look too. Hope this helps. Look at the facts; ( type of sanding machine) . . .makes the difference.
Dan R Braucht

I always go around the edges with my random orbital sander to clean up edger marks and blend it in then I use my buffer with the Bona multi disc attachment with 80 grit then again with 100 grit

For some reason , there is a perception that all stain colors are correct "only" if you buff with 80 or 100 grit screens. I don't subscribe to that kind of thinking .I always prepare samples for the customer based on how I sand the floor,.Never based on how the color looks when the floor is screen with 80 or 100 .

Secondly, if your colors aren't dark enough , you'd gain ever advantage by using Duraseal stains instead of Bona. Bona's stains are all very light in color compared to the minwax staple colors.Duraseal stains are right on the money with their corresponding minwax counterparts .They are basically the same company . Bona dark walnut looks like watered down Minwax or Duraseal dark walnut.

Trying to make a Bona stain look darker is self defeating when you can easily buy Duraseal and achieve a better color.

As far as technique, I do have a multi disc for my buffer but I generally finish off with a 120 grit 3M screen for stain jobs after taking the field and edges to 100 grit. IF the flooring is close to flat, you wont be able to see buffer swirls.If you have a lumpy floor, you will see buffer swirls in the high boards no matter what grit screen you use .

For stains, I always sanded to 100 on the machines, and then we scraped all the end walls and used an orbital with 100 grit on it; I also had my crew use LED mechanic's lights. These lights show up every mark on the floor, and it makes scraping much easier. Last procedure was to screen with 120. My sample panels are all done this way, so the customer saw the color as it would be with my sanding techniques. We always put samples on the floor. If they wanted it darker, than I'd water treat it.

About five years ago I was unhappy with a job where the 120 swirls showed up on the uneven parts, and I called 3M. They had a sanding expert that I talked to, and he told me about their new product, the yellow "easy change" discs. They're one-sided, and attach with velcro. You put two maroon pads on top of them, so that they ride the level changes better. I use 120 in this product, too. I've not had a problem with the swirls since changing over. I also use the 150 grit easy-change on maple floors.

I run my square buff .

I use to have the same problem I would use dull 100 or 120 screens and would still get swirls. I changed to using 180 or 220 Pressure sensitive tape on maroon pads and I never get swirls on floors regardless of color.

I recently started doing my final cut with 80 grit. Then buff with a 100 grit DISK, not screen. Works great

About a year ago we start cutting most floors with #100 on all machines prior to staining. Depending on the job and color we even palm sand the edges prior to buffer with #100 as well. #100 to us seems to be a versatile grit as it is a happy medium for natural jobs and stains. Our jobs come out very nice. Here and there I can see a random streak from the Hummel and I wonder if its simply a missed spot from the buffer or what. Either way 100% satisfaction rate thus far since we have adopted this method. Also for the record we always start a new screen in a corner or a closet and methodically don't screen areas with high visibility while the screen is still fresh.

>>Also for the record we always start a new screen in a corner or a closet and methodically don't screen areas with high visibility while the screen is still fresh.

That's important to remember. I've not had a customer complain about it, but I've seen places where an apprentice forgot this rule, and didn't go back over the area after the screen had dulled out.

As far as buffer technique--my partner likes to 'snow plow' the buffer across the room; a straight line with no stopping. I like feathering the line as I go, which means that I'm moving left to right, and at the same time I'm rotating the buffer in small circles as I go. If the floor has waves in it, I run the buffer in several directions at that point, so that it doesn't scalp the top of the rise. My reasoning is that you don't 'snow plow' an edger on final sandings, so why do it with a buffer?

The other company I work with snow plows all the time, with no bad results. They do something else I've not seen--they run a diagonal pattern across the floor first, very quickly. Then they do the snow plow with the grain, left to right. They're using 150 screens, but we also do a lot of water-popping with this company. Last cut on the Hummel is 100; last cut on the edgers is 120. We almost never do a natural.