Bamboo 5/8" thick Horizontal Eng. Hardwood GAPS @ SEAMS

Floorguy · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:01 pm

Some of Shaws wood is from China. Outsourcing is becoming real big in the wood market. If you can't beat them on price, join them and build your own factory over there.

Rbose · **Joined:** Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:44 pm **Posts:** 129

At least for the stuff that I have, it's definitely China sourced. It matches up with what I've read on here as being identifiable as Chinese. My Muskoka prefinished Maple was just unbelievably so much better in quality. Of course, it was twice the price, but so worth it in times of less hassle/ease of installation.

If I were an installer, I would charge differing amounts to install a goood brand versus a crappy brand. Obviously you guys are better at it, but I can't imagine it still doesn't take longer to install the crappier brands versus the good ones. I could fly on my nail downs on the Muskoka. The Shaw took me a lot longer because I had to look at the pieces, see if there was any over wood and width problems, etc. In the end, I think my Shaw looks fine, but wow, what a hassle.

Exquisite Flooring · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2007 1:34 pm

^^ that reasoning is why I dont normally let the customers oreder the wood themselves. Usually the extra money they save on products (from buying a lesser brand) usually goes to me for the added length of instalation

Rbose · **Joined:** Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:44 pm **Posts:** 129

I have to generally agree with that philosophy. That being said, I've spent enough time on this site now that I know I could buy wood that would be installer acceptable.

Exquisite Flooring · **Posted:** Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:25 pm

Spread the word, yell it from the rooftops. Because when the installers etc. say it, we are just trying to make more money...When actually we are trying to help you make a better descion.

It doesnt matter who installs it/ buys it ect.

The end result is always the same, it may look okay to you, or us, but your friends/family etc. may think it doesnt look good (or assume that is how ALL wood floors look... In essence turning them off of wood floors, as well as telling others how they feel about it and whay, and what they saw in your house etc.)

Those are the reasons we installers/owners want to do extra things in your homes to make them look/function better. Not becuase we want to do extra work for fun, but because a good job at your home could lead to other jobs even if not for us or our company but for the industry as a whole.

*sorry for the rant**

subliminal132002 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:32 am **Posts:** 13

Update...inspection results in...i will share the findings below....

i havent approached the installer yet but fear he will still try to say they gaps are within acceptable limit....within the body of the conculsion you will see the inspectors measurement and description of gaps...interestd in feedback on them:

FINDINGS:
This is a installation issue. There is no manufacturing deficiency. (Summary on moisutre....subfloor and material moisture readings were all fine). Seam separaration measurements were taken of .023, .045, .060, .066, and .081. Theses seperations are wedge shaped. The first rows of the installation are installed out of rack. As install progressed across the room the condition worsened. Checked the measurements of this bamboo and found the milling to be within industry requirement.

What you you think on his gap measurements?

Rbose · **Joined:** Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:44 pm **Posts:** 129

Ouch. If that first row really wasn't racked up correctly, then gapping will certainly happen. The fact that the gaps are wedge shaped lends even more credence to the inspectors comments.

Have you visually confirmed the results? That should be easy to do, since the boards will be slightly offset on the row that is causing the gap.

Also, could you post some pictures?

subliminal132002 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:32 am **Posts:** 13

yes i had visually confirmed the gaps after the installation and before inspector arrived.

When the installer blamed the materials i measured 15-20 boards without any differences in the size of the planks. I also showed him that to me it looked like the very first row of planks had been set crooked. I am no expert.......but to me that was what it looked like.......we were in disagreeement on that so that where the independent inspector came in. I don't think he will try to argue that point but i do think he may still try to say the size of those gaps are acceptable.

Rbose · **Joined:** Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:44 pm **Posts:** 129

Weird. The installer should have known immediately that the first row wasn't straight. He should have corrected that right away.

As a DIYer, after I put my initial row down, I put down a row un-nailed just to make sure that the first row is good to go. You don't really have to do that if you are using a straight bar to butt the first row against initially, but I do it for peace of mind.

I have a feeling that he'll try to wiggle out of this, even though it sounds like it was a careless install on his part. Make sure you take pictures so that you can use them in small claims court if it comes down to that.

subliminal132002 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:32 am **Posts:** 13

well ...thanks for all your help...everything has come to a resolution i am pleased with.

My contractor had installed the flooring and after reviewing the report and without argument he was a standup guy agreed to pay for the cost of the floor that was ruined.

Rbose · **Joined:** Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:44 pm **Posts:** 129

subliminal132002 · **Joined:** Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:32 am **Posts:** 13

things are going better now i have a new installer coming this weekend. I will post some pics when its down and hopefully looking better than the first botched job.

A few things of interest......the new installer looked at the staples that were used and said they were too small and over time wouldnt have held anything in place.

He also was shocked at something else. He said he wanted to go downstairs to see the floor joyces and when we got down there he had a shocked look on his face. When i asked him if something was wrong he said that if i hadn't spoken up i probably would have had even bigger problems in the future with squeaks...knocking boards...and pop ups because the previous installer had ran the planks parallel to the joyces rather than against them. He said this was a big no no and couldnt understand why the would have installed it that way.

Rbose · **Joined:** Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:44 pm **Posts:** 129

Wow, not even newbies that have done a little bit of research make that joist mistake. That's an "open up and read the instructions" kind of thing.

Ray Darrah · **Posted:** Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:07 pm

subliminal132002 wrote:

so anything bigger than 1/32" is not within tolerance or acceptable then?

the 25+ gaps i counted over the first 300-350 sq feet were 1/16th"

The second 150-200 feet leading up to where they stopped had over 5 gaps that were 1/8" or slightly bigger to were you could put a nickel between the planks without even touching either side. The installer originally tried to say those 1/8" gaps where you could see all the staples in the tongue were normal and ok for that type of floor....i didnt budge and he agreed to redo the kitchen area....but said he didnt think he could get them tighter.....

when i told him i didnt think he could get them tighter because the problem started out near the beginning point of the installation with the first few rows exhibiting 1/32" or bigger gaps and with the 1/16" starting probably only 6 planks in from the door where they started......he said he measured that foyer area and hall and that "none of them were over 1/16" saying that was acceptable and i was just being too picky now.

out of rack? and we were worried about gapping.. Good thing an inspector came out.

Rbose · **Joined:** Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:44 pm **Posts:** 129

Yeah, but how often does that problem crop up? That's such a basic thing!

Bamboo 5/8" thick Horizontal Eng. Hardwood GAPS @ SEAMS

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