Just wondering about Transitions.

I’ve seen quite a few pictures on the internet showing wood floors installed or being installed and all using transitions. I have visited clearly a few dozen model homes obtaining design ideas and noticed that “None” of the new Model Homes, (all of which had in common glued down engineered floors to concrete), used transition strips between the wood floors to carpet or to tile. The floors just went from wood straight to a different floor.

So I checked with my neighbors, which the majority as transition over to hard wood engineered floors to some extent (I’m one of the last come lately) and every singly one, with no exception have no transition strips between wood and other types of flooring. Just smooth transition with at the most about a gap you could probably fit a credit card if it weren’t for what appears to be some type of calking in there already.

And the majority of these floors or at least ten years old and are pure works of art. Now I’ve seen a couple of laminate flooring in some homes like in a kids play room, and those floors do have transition strips.

So…I went to retailers with samples of laid flooring. Without an exception (not counting the laminates), each wood floor was without a Transition strip where other types of flooring connected.

From five of five installers

“Why would you want to do that? You’ll have a glued down floor that’s even with the tile floor”

Or (From an installer usually contracted my Model Home designers #1

“What for? You have a wood floor not a laminate”

Or

“We can do that. But it’ll cost you extra for a look your not gonna like”

Or

“No one I know has used transitions for glued down on even transitions for years. If you have to have it…okay”

And (From an installer usually contracted my Model Home designers #2)

“We don’t do laminates floors and we don’t do transitions unless the floor will be at a different height from the areas you need transitions for. And since you don’t, we won’t, and you won’t like it anyway.”

So why it is some installers use transitions and some don’t. Or is it just the way they do things in my area? …which of course I do understand my not work or is not used in another area.

Depends on who is doing the work. Expect to see transition pieces with the tract home builders who hire out the cheapest bidder. Those kind of guys for the most part don't know how to "create the work of art" or care more about production and moving on to the next job. They're happy with slapping in a t-molding. It takes ALOT of extra time to do the better kind of work.

With floating floors you can't avoid transition pieces. They're necessary to allow the floor to expand and contract. They will grow and shrink given the right conditions. Gluedown engineered hardwoods will have little if any expansion and contraction, so "net fitting" or creating an almost seamless transition is possible. However, some guys will disagree with some of the newer imported stuff thesedays.

Before I started this website I did some work for a few high end builders that net fitted everything and these were solid 3/4" hardwood floors. Under no circumstances would they even consider a transition piece. Those floors were so tight against stone or marble you couldn't fit a pin between two floor coverings. BUT, all of these homes were climate controlled to the max with the Rh constant year round.

By the way, many ceramic tile installers can't cut a straight line and another reason you'll see transition pieces to cover up the irregularity. It's sometimes more about who is doing the work and how much you're willing to pay.

I think one thing to note on transitions is that a lot of installs are pre-finish. When I do an un-finished install it is very east to route wood with a roman oge or a round-over where it buts up to carpet or tile. With pre-finish it can be done as well but you then have to match sheen and urethane. Sometimes getting it right can be a pain. If I am doing a pre-finish job and it is butting up to another uneven medium like tile or carpet, I will usually use a threshold transition, if the client has no preference on the matter. If I am doing an unfinished I will usually break out the router and use a raised panel, oge, or round-over to give it a finished edge. I never use T-molding though, I spline in multiple places if I am doing a large room that needs expansion.

Ok, time for my first post...

I've been lurking here for a while, and getting ready to do my first install--3/4" x 3" prefinished, stapled down over 3/4 OSB, 950 sq feet. Other factors: Midwest home (michigan), full finished basement under the floors I'm going to be installing, central A/C and central heat.

Thanks to everyone here for the wealth of knowledge that's offered. I've been reading here for over a month now, and I've not found any place better!

So far, I have two conserns that my inexperience may be a factor in...the selection of the appropriate wood (see my last questions below), and transitions...

The good news is that all my floor transitions will be level, as I'm installing ceramic tile in the areas that will not have hardwood (bathroom, kitchen, and entryway), so I can match their height to the wood floor height. The tile in the entryway has a metal strip installed on the wood-floor side...so it's good and straight (at about a 30degree angle though).

It appears that the prevailing opinion here is to 'butt' against the tile strip...can I go tight against it?, or should some gap (maybe credit card sized?) be more appropriate? My plan is to butt a board parallel to the tile line, and then install the rest of the flooring against it (at approx 30 degreee angle)...If I do this, should I leave the tongue on the butted board, and route a grouve into the end of each piece after I cut it?...or just rip the tongue off? Finally, is this still an appropriate way to do this in the midwest?

Also, I'm now considering Brazilian Redwood (rosewood?) or Braz. Cherry, but I'm thinking that the instability of the Cherry might work against me given the humidity shifts that we have here between seasons, even with climate control. Does anyone here have experience with either in the Midwest?

Lastly, I'm planning to do the install in November to January timeframe (close to the dryest time of the year)...In shopping around, one of the flooring vendors told me that this was a great time to install...I'd end up with a "really tight" floor...My worry is that I might have a tight floor next summer, and big gaps from permenantly compressed boards next winter. Given that even with climate control there may be a swing in ambient humidity of 15 %, could this happen?...or will I just have a really tight floor? What do you think?

Thanks again to everyone here!...and thanks in advance for your opinions!

-David

On the transition I would leave the tounge on the header board and regrove the pieces you cut the angle on. I would run it tight against the tile especially because the short ends of the boards will be butting into the header I wouldnt be overly concerned with expansion at that point imparticular. On installing during the winter months you might want to work some expansion space into the floor to compensate for some growth during the humid times of the year. I havent found b.cherry to be terribly unstable no more than an hickory or maple imo. Now I now what some are going to say, but the problems I have seen concerning excess movement in b.c have been very few. I have seen a greater association of excessive movement with wide wide planks, a 3" plank should be fine.

I have done just what you are proposing. Installing a header paralell with the tile and then flooring up to it. If you have lots of floor movement, that could be a problem but in my experience, if a floor is going to move, it's going up as well as sideways. I think if I lived in the gulf region, my opinion would be different because of the extreme humidity changes. For me, the only time I see floors moving is due to exposure to moisture or shrinkage from very dry weather.

The only time i see movement thats great enough to cause the floor to buckle is when some of these yahoo builders in our area put down a floor in the dead on winter with no heat then let it sit till mid summer untill they are ready to finish the house to turn on the a/c. Had one this summer that was about a 12 by 12 dining room that was put down before the sheetrock was hung and ran tight to the studs(brilliant!). After a record setting summer of rain and humidity the floor developed a 18" hump right in the center of the room. This guy argued with me for over an hour on wood floors, and if there is one thing that i can say I know a little more than averge about its wood flooring. He just couldnt belive that it was caused by humidity wanted me to replace all the wood because he was too cheap to run the a/c and not smart enough to leave some expansion. Some people are not worth the trouble.

AMEN, brother, AMEN!

Sorry about by q being taked onto the end of this tread...I must have goofed when I started it...oh well...

Anyway, thanks for the feedback! I feel much better about moving forward...it can be confusing when a large number of posts here reference glue-downs, cement floors, and florida installs...I understand that's because the board is based in Florida...

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I get closer to the install...I havn't yet picked a brand or vendor....I'm curious to see what Ken comes up with on the pre-aged B.C. pricewise....

Thanks again!
-David