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 Post subject: No acclimation or expansion gaps - should I worry?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:02 pm 
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My contractor just installed 2-1/4" red oak in our master bedroom (about 30 feet long, which is also the direction of the boards). Although the floor looks great, I'm concerned about 2 things:

- The boards went from being tightly bundled in the back of a truck in 40 degree weather, to being nailed to subfloor, in under 4 hours. No "acclimation".
- In most of the room, the boards butt right up against the baseboards on both sides. Doesn't there need to be some expansion gap? I live in a humid city (Atlanta) and I'm worried that summer will bring some nasty surprises.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts - I'll keep reading this board to see if the answers are out there already.


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 Post subject: Re: No acclimation or expansion gaps - should I worry?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:37 pm 
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The floor is dry enough to walk on, so I went up and measured. The longest run is 44 feet (in the direction of the grain). The board is so tight against the wall, I couldn't get the tip of my tape measure into the gap to hold it. This run goes from the far end of the hallway to the end of our bedroom.

I'm an idiot, because I have no signed contract, and no idea whether there's even a warranty for this work. I'll tackle that with the contractor on Monday; she seems like a reasonable person.

The one hope I keep holding onto is that the original hardwoods on the first floor were installed the same way - long runs, with no expansion gaps - and we've had no problems in 18 years.


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 Post subject: Re: No acclimation or expansion gaps - should I worry?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:44 am 
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It's really a non issue for boards running lengthwise or installed perpendicular to the baseboard. There's little if any expansion and contraction on the length. As far as acclimation. That's going to be a wait and see thing. It could have been stored in a warehouse with similar Rh levels as your home...but it's not the way things should be done today.

When summer arrives, air conditioning will pull out some of the excessive moisture, but then we don't run the AC all the time in the area. It's prolonged periods of high moisture that can be problematic.

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 Post subject: Re: No acclimation or expansion gaps - should I worry?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:47 am 
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Ken Fisher wrote:
It's really a non issue for boards running lengthwise or installed perpendicular to the baseboard. There's little if any expansion and contraction on the length. As far as acclimation. That's going to be a wait and see thing. It could have been stored in a warehouse with similar Rh levels as your home...but it's not the way things should be done today.

When summer arrives, air conditioning will pull out some of the excessive moisture, but then we don't run the AC all the time in the area. It's prolonged periods of high moisture that can be problematic.


Hi Ken, thanks. My installer just said the exact opposite - that the boards only expand along their length (with the grain). It seems to me that it would be smart to just leave a gap all the way around. Anyway, she agreed to have her workers cut a gap at the baseboards. I'll verify this when I get home tonight.

Here are pics of the install as it is now...tight!

Image

Image

Image


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 Post subject: Re: No acclimation or expansion gaps - should I worry?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:35 pm 
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plainsawn flooring will expand along the width if the board..although wood would generally expand in all directions to some degree, it is general accepted that the width is the real culprit...

all that work...they could have just pulled off the trim, then reinstalled it or just installed shoe molding.

as for the acclimation..no one can answer what will happen without knowing moisture content of the materials..

more important than acclimation is moisture content of subfloor and materials and the balance between them..

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 Post subject: Re: No acclimation or expansion gaps - should I worry?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:19 pm 
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Update on this...

My contractor's crew came out today to fix the problem, but their solution surprised me. Instead of pulling the baseboard up and reinstalling it above the floor (my solution), they ripped out most of the finished boards along one wall, and installed brand new ones. So now they have to stain and poly those new boards to match.

They only addressed the width (boards parallel to wall), but I guess the consensus is that I don't have to worry about the length (boards perpendicular to the wall).


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 Post subject: Re: No acclimation or expansion gaps - should I worry?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:33 pm 
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pintiki wrote:
Update on this...



They only addressed the width (boards parallel to wall), but I guess the consensus is that I don't have to worry about the length (boards perpendicular to the wall).


No you don't have to worry about that direction very much (normally). The thing I would want to know is what the moisture content of the flooring and subfloor is . Then you can better predict if the floor is going to shrink or swell. I'm shocked at how few installers own or use a moisture meter.

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 Post subject: Re: No acclimation or expansion gaps - should I worry?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:28 pm 
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You have plenty to worry about! No moisture testing of the subfloor and the wood itself. A prerequisite of all mfg and the NWFA. Get someone who knows how to measure the mc of subfloor, yes most moisture meters have different settings for osb and plywood, as the difference should be no more than 4% for 2 1/4" solid wood. You need to document now what those readings are so that if the floor buckles you can see what the difference is. Then wood science will tell you why this occurred. I would go to www.nwfacp.org and find an inspector in your area to do this and advise you based on testing DO NOT WAIT. For example if the floor is installed with a moisture content of 4% that would be 20% relative humidity then if the moisture content in the summer reads 10% or 55% Relative humidity that is a difference of 6%. The formula of width x % of change x coefficient of change, red oak is .00369 would be as follows
(10-4)= 6 x 2.25 x .00369 = .0489 per board. .0489 x 10 boards = about 1/2". Should that happen the boards will raise of the floor. So get the inspector to assess that and using earths magnets see if the nailing schedule of 8" to 10" is adhered to with a fastener within 1' to 3" of each end of the board. Cannot tell you how many inspections I have done where this is not done. You can go to my website for NWFA Installation guidelines which all mfg's adhere to. www.decker-consulting-inspections.vpweb.com
3/4" solid requires 3/4" gap otherwise it can literally move your studs And as stated it doesn't typically do so in the length but that doesn't change the installation guidelines. Generally baseboards are removed and then replaced after the 3/4" guideline for expansion requirement. Good Luck. As an inspector all I ever see is failure sad for all concerned and so unnecessary.


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 Post subject: Re: No acclimation or expansion gaps - should I worry?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:51 am 
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I negotiated a partial refund to offset the cost of removing the baseboards and replacing them 1/4" above the floor. I started myself in the closet, and the job is difficult because the baseboards are wedged in so tightly. Hard to remove them without doing some damage to the drywall. :(

I'm using my Rockwell tool to cut the baseboard into smaller sections. Then I pry the section out at the studs, cut the nails with a wire cutter, and rock the baseboard back and forth until it comes out.


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 Post subject: Re: No acclimation or expansion gaps - should I worry?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:57 am 
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pintiki wrote:
The one hope I keep holding onto is that the original hardwoods on the first floor were installed the same way - long runs, with no expansion gaps - and we've had no problems in 18 years.


I just wanted to correct myself - although our first floor appears to have no gaps, the baseboard was installed above the floor - so there is indeed room for expansion.


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