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 Post subject: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:20 pm 
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We have completely renovated our ancient house (1800s) and our final step is installing unfinished red oak in the entire downstairs.
After our installer/finished has canceled on us twice, we have decided to do it ourselves.
I have done all of the other work (demo, framing, tile, plumbing, electrical, etc.) so I might as well learn to install hardwood as well.

We are running these floors through the entire downstairs. Living room, bedroom, entryways, dining room, kitchen.
All floors are even with each other, but the floors are far from level. I don't care about that, as long as the floors install ok.
I have used floor leveling compound to taper the unlevel areas as best as I can.
I am going to install perpendicular boards at the room transitions to make it easier on me. (So I don't have to maintain a line the whole length of the house)

The subfloor is 6x1" pine (original) covered with 1/4" plywood (from the 1950s) or 2"x3/4" T&G pine... but as I said, they are all even with each other.

I am laying roofing paper down first (that's what was done on our upstairs floors by the last installer).

Install Questions:
1. Will any pnuematic gun that shoots staples work for this 1 install? Home Depot sells them in the $200-300 range.
I bought the Freeman $220 pneumatic stapler from Home Depot. I am using 2" Bostich staples.
2. Should I use 2" staples? That's what I went with.
3. What should I use on the 3 edge rows? Top nail? What size nails?
I top nailed the first 2 rows with my 18g finishing nailer, using 2 1/2" nails. I used 2 nails every 8" or so. It isn't pretty, but I should be able to fill with putty and with dark stain, it shouldn't be too bad. On the next room I might top nail the first row, then drill and angle nail the second row.

Finishing Questions:
1. What sequence of sanding should be used on unfinished floors? Is this source any good? http://www.cinhome.com/shop/shop.cgi?page=trio.html
2. We used MinWax dark walnut stain upstairs. How long should we leave it on before we wipe it off? Should we apply with rags?
3. What nail putty should I use and when should I apply it? Dark walnut colored before final sanding? A normal color that accepts stain, before staining?

I would like to start the install this weekend. I will get more info on the finishing later.

Thank you for any advice! (I will be searching through the forum for some answers and updating this thread with what I find.


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 Post subject: Re: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:44 am 
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I started last night. I got the first 3 rows in.
I will post pics as I go to help other beginners see my process... even if it is wrong. :)

Our wood is Common grade 2 or 3, with a TON of short boards.
There are so many short boards that you pretty much have to use them everywhere and sprinkle in longer boards.

Here is our upstairs that was professionally installed last year. We are trying to imitate it.
Installing: http://i.imgur.com/bAPsZ.jpg
Sanded: http://i.imgur.com/OubUt.jpg
Finished with Dark Walnut Minwax and 1 coat semi-gloss, 1 coat satin oil based poly: http://i.imgur.com/0JnL2.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:22 pm 
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I like the look of the Tavern Grade. Good luck with your project.


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 Post subject: Re: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:41 pm 
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Here it is after about 4 hours. (first few hours was laying the paper out, snapping the line, setting the first row, etc.)
http://i.imgur.com/yJ1ti.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:21 pm 
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You are doing a great job. The only thing I may recommend since you are using a 3 1/4" Red Oak is to maintain 1/2" to 3/4" gap on each side of the wall. The picture isn't clear enough to show that there is gap.


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 Post subject: Re: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:06 pm 
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What and when should we fill nail holes with?
There are also a few 1/16" gaps between boards that were not manufactured correctly.
We didn't notice until after the entire row was nail in and we brought the next row up to it.

Can we fill these gaps with wood putty? What kind?
Should we do it before sanding? Before the final high grit sand coat?
Are there any wood putties that take stain well?

We finished the first room and will post pics later.


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 Post subject: Re: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:39 pm 
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1/16" gap is expected when you buy tavern grade boards. I think it only adds beauty to the flooring. There is a product that you can use called Zar Wood Patch Red Oak Trowelable. I have heard that the best results are obtained when you just use a very dry mix of sawdust mixed with epoxy or with urethane. Before you sand it and stain it, make sure you let it dry.


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 Post subject: Re: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:16 pm 
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We finished the dining room this evening.
I don't know how you professionals do this every day of the week!
It is very tough work. It is tough on your knees, legs, back, etc.

Here are updated photos of the first room, the dining room and an example 1/16th inch gap.
We would like to fill these large gaps before staining.

First Room - http://i.imgur.com/kUjHP.jpg
Dining Room = http://i.imgur.com/zKnVo.jpg
Gap - http://i.imgur.com/0dtOY.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:24 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 02, 2009 3:45 pm
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Location: Tucson AZ
Heck, I have seen gaps worse with high end manufacturers prefinished. All you got to do to stop that is take lots more time racking it out. Looks great from my house. Fill it and sand it.

_________________
Stephen Perrera
Top Floor Installation Co.
Tucson, Arizona
IFCII Certified Inspector
Floor Repairs and Installation in Tucson, Az
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com


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 Post subject: Re: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:42 pm 
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Fill it with what?
Any suggestions other than Zar Wood Patch Red Oak Trowelable?


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 Post subject: Re: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:00 pm
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Woodwise filler. You should be able to find it a HD


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 Post subject: Re: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:36 pm
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Location: Spencer, TN
We use Woodwise trowelable filler, although we don't always trowell it on, you can spot fill also. It also stains real well. Nothing looks better than real wood though--edger dust mixed with clear lacquer dries in about 15-20 mins. Fill before final sanding so you sand off any excess.


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 Post subject: Re: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:30 pm
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Location: Essex county
well it looks good from picture so far, but generally the things that make the difference in quality you can't see in pictures. Drums marks and edger lines mostly. I always say you can only work as good as your equipment allows. But If your happy with it then great. Alot of work involved when you never have done it before.


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 Post subject: Re: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:09 pm 
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Ok, we have it all laid now.
We are going to rent the drum and edge sanders this weekend.

Here is my plan:
1. Drum 40, Edge 40, Drum 60, Edge 60, Spot fill gaps, Drum 80, Edge 80
2. Vacuum with shopvac floor attachment (using fine filter bags), use tack cloth or damp rags to clean fine dust off
3. Brush on Olympic Dark Walnut 234g/L VOC stain in managable area. Allow to sit for a few minutes, then wipe off excess with rags.
4. Allow to dry overnight or until fully dry. (Can says 8 hours to apply finishes)
5. Lambs wool apply high voc oil based poly
6. pole sand with 180-220 grit screens (suggestions?)
7. Vacuum and tack (necessary?)
8. repeat Steps 5-7 to have 3 poly coats
9. ...
10. Profit

Also, I have a hand orbital sander we are going to use on the staircase. The staircase is brand new red oak treads.
I figure we will oribtal sand them with 80 grit and they should be fine. What do you think?

Thank you for your suggestions and tips!


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 Post subject: Re: 850sqft - 3 1/4" x 3/4" Red Oak - Tavern Grade Install ???
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:39 pm 
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To avoid gouging your floor, use a fine paper 150 or higher to learn how to use the machine. Once you feel comfortable use 60-80-100 grit sand papers to sand your floors. If this is the first time using the sander spend some money in some fine sand paper to learn how to operate the machine.


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